[ale] upgrading desktop

Jeffrey Layton laytonjb at gmail.com
Tue Aug 11 07:55:41 EDT 2020 

I love this thread. Lots of people with great ideas and recommendations. I
have some of the links bookmarked for when I get time to review :)


On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 7:50 PM David Jackson via Ale <ale at ale.org> wrote:

> Hey Bob,
>
> >>>For the new desktop I'm leaning towards a cheap graphics card as
> suggested by several along with the ryzen 5 3600 on a B450 motherboard.
> (I'm not interested in gaming.)  Is the cheap graphics card still a
> reasonable choice if I have to record video?
> <<<
>
>
> As far as the GPU choice, I would put the rx5700 as a very entry-level
> GPU.  If you can spring for a beefier GPU, you'll notice a big
> improvement.  Again, you video producers correct me where I'm wrong.  AMD
> GPUs target the entry level up to the mid-range levels of GPU.  For super
> heavy duty, it's all Nvidia.  But super-heavy is around the $600 and up
> range.
>

In full disclosure, I work for NVIDIA(not the commercial side - the data
center side). I think AMD makes GPUs that are just great and I won't
disparage them at all. But I like ours better and I did before I joined the
company. :) On the NVIDIA side there are GeForce GPUs for a wide range of
prices. A quick look at Newegg shows a new NVIDIA GPU starting at about $45
(GT710). This is a passively cooled card. My personal favorite passively
cooled card is the GT1030 with 2GB of memory. There is one that costs $90
that I particularly like.

As you go up in price and performance then fans are added to the cards. I
see some cards with 4GB of video memory under $200. For 6GB of video memory
then it looks like you need to cross the $200 threshold (about $210).

What I personally do is find a price point that I'm comfortable with and
look for NVIDIA GPUs that reach that price point. I also look at cards that
are a little above that price point and a little below that. I target three
cards that I like (the Three Bears so to speak). I then look around for
performance tests of those cards. I'm not a gamer so I ignore the game
results but I do look at the computational tests as well as video
encoding/decoding tests.

I wait a couple of weeks if I can, and then see which of the three cards my
"gut" says to go with. In general, I pick the one at my price point
although for a couple of projects I chose the one that costs a little more.
While my children were in school I tended to pick that one at my price
point, but after they finished, I picked the ones that cost just a little
more.

When you pick a video card, be sure that your case has room for it -
particularly if the card is long or takes up two slots (this is true for
NVIDIA or AMD). This has bitten me in the past.

As others say, I hope this helps.

Jeff


>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:31 PM Bob via Ale <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> A couple more questions relating to building a desktop.
>>
>> 1)  My wife is sensitive to noise, and we're often working in the same
>> office at home.  She has mentioned that my current=old desktop is noisy.
>>   Even though I don't notice it unless I think about it, I have to agree.
>>
>> When building a new desktop, what things can/should I do to keep it
>> reasonably quiet?
>>
>> 2)  I have to record several hours of video each week.  I'm using
>> obs-studio, and I think obs-studio has suggested a lower resolution due
>> to the weak cpu.
>>
>> For the new desktop I'm leaning towards a cheap graphics card as
>> suggested by several along with the ryzen 5 3600 on a B450 motherboard.
>> (I'm not interested in gaming.)  Is the cheap graphics card still a
>> reasonable choice if I have to record video?
>>
>> BTW, something along the following is what I'm leaning towards building
>> now:
>>
>> >> I tend to think the most "bang for the buck" system today (in my mind)
>> >> would be a B450 motherboard with a Ryzen 5 3600, 16G RAM at about 3200
>> or
>> >> faster, and I would go for an NVMe M.2 SSD at around 500G.  You can
>> use a
>> >> cheap video card (about $35) and the case and power supply as your
>> budget
>> >> and preference dictates.  Power supplies and cases are a bit more
>> expensive
>> >> these days, thanks to COVID-challenged supplies, but memory, ssd's and
>> CPUs
>> >> are relatively cheap.  This system would cost you about $550-600 or so,
>> >> depending on your choices.  One example:
>> >> https://pcpartpicker.com/user/deepbsd/saved/#view=6tqG3C
>>
>> --Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2020-08-02 10:45 p.m., David Jackson wrote:
>> > I tend to build a lot of systems, so my perspective is influenced by
>> this
>> > bias.  But I'm unclear about your priorities.
>> >
>> > If you were doing something demanding (say rendering videos or doing
>> heavy
>> > computation or competitive gaming or whatever), you would be well
>> beyond a
>> > 3rd gen i5 cpu.  Since 3rd gen Intel level of tech seems to suit you
>> fine,
>> > it seems to me your performance requirements are rather low.  Another
>> thing
>> > I'm curious about is how much change are you willing to tolerate.
>> Would a
>> > lot of added performance be a bad thing or a good thing?
>> >
>> > I think you might be missing how easy it would be to get a *massive*
>> > performance upgrade with a relatively slight effort or cost by upgrading
>> > all your whole architecture.  A LOT has changed since 3rd gen Intel was
>> > current.  For about the cost in difficulty and dollars in upgrading your
>> > 3rd gen architecture, you could probably find a more current Ryzen
>> system
>> > that would give this massive upgrade.   What has changed a lot very
>> > recently is that AMD Ryzen normally beats Intel in terms of performance
>> per
>> > dollar (bang for the buck) nowadays.  (I'm trying to keep it simple
>> here.)
>> > And the surrounding architecture has massively improved as well.
>> Current
>> > gen platforms are much more efficient and performant overall than a 3rd
>> gen
>> > i5 was.
>> >
>> > If you really prefer to "tough it out" on your current architecture, I
>> > would have to infer that your priority has more to do with "optimizing
>> the
>> > last electron out of a potato" as I call it.  There's a certain level of
>> > pride geeks sometimes get over "doing the most with the least"
>> technology.
>> > If that's you, then nevermind.  But it would help to know that "getting
>> the
>> > last ounce of performance out of your potato" is in fact a priority.  If
>> > that's true, there are other layers of complexity that might be of
>> > interest, such as over clocking and water cooling, but cost and
>> complexity
>> > quickly become factors here.  But if that seemed attractive to you, my
>> > guess is your questions would have been very different.
>> >
>> > I tend to think the most "bang for the buck" system today (in my mind)
>> > would be a B450 motherboard with a Ryzen 5 3600, 16G RAM at about 3200
>> or
>> > faster, and I would go for an NVMe M.2 SSD at around 500G.  You can use
>> a
>> > cheap video card (about $35) and the case and power supply as your
>> budget
>> > and preference dictates.  Power supplies and cases are a bit more
>> expensive
>> > these days, thanks to COVID-challenged supplies, but memory, ssd's and
>> CPUs
>> > are relatively cheap.  This system would cost you about $550-600 or so,
>> > depending on your choices.  One example:
>> > https://pcpartpicker.com/user/deepbsd/saved/#view=6tqG3C
>> > I wager this system would make you grin each time you sit down at your
>> PC.
>> > I'd also wager that the "grin factor" would quickly offset the dollar
>> > damage.
>> >
>> > I would imagine your existing system might fetch $100 on ebay, possibly?
>> >
>> > Hope this helps.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 12:16 PM Bob via Ale <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Charles has me thinking about upgrading my 8 year old lenovo desktop.
>> >> I'm thinking of increasing memory and installing an ssd.
>> >>
>> >> I don't know much about hardware, so I'm hoping some of you might give
>> >> me some advice and maybe keep me from doing something stupid.  I'm not
>> a
>> >> gamer, so that might make things simpler.
>> >>
>> >> 1)  Memory.  Currently, there are  two 4 GB ddr3 1600 memory modules in
>> >> the two memory slots.  There is no graphics card in my desktop and the
>> >> integrated graphics uses some of the memory.  I can upgrade to two 8 gb
>> >> ddr3l 1600.  According to crucial.com, the crucial 16gb kit (2 x 8GB)
>> >> ddr3l-1600 udimm are compatible.
>> >>
>> >> I believe my motherboard can use either ddr3 or ddr3l.  Is there an
>> >> advantage of one over the other?
>> >>
>> >> (The power supply unit has been fine, but it's only 280 watts.  I don't
>> >> know if that would affect the above choice or not.)
>> >>
>> >> Microcenter has a variety of brands:  Neo Forza, G. skills ripjaw,
>> >> crucial, ....  Are there brands to avoid?  Are there brands that you'd
>> >> recommend?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2)  ssd.  This seems more complicated.
>> >>
>> >> There are 4 empty pci express slots---one is x16 and the others x1.  I
>> >> do not believe that the motherboard supports pcie ssd.  The motherboard
>> >> does not have mSATA or m.2 slots.  So pcie ssd seems to be impossible.
>> >> (I don't know what I'd ever use these slots for.)
>> >>
>> >> The chipset on the motherboard only supports SATA at 3.0 gb/s.  There
>> >> are 3 SATA ports and one e-SATA port.  (There has been no update to the
>> >> bios/uefi firmware.)
>> >>
>> >> One SATA port is connected to the optical drive, and the other two SATA
>> >> ports are connected to the two 1TB HDDs Both drives have plenty of free
>> >> space.
>> >>
>> >> I don't know why I get slightly different info for the following.  When
>> >> I execute "sudo hdparm -I /dev/sda | grep SATA", the result is:
>> >>
>> >>          Transport:          Serial, SATA Rev 3.0
>> >>
>> >> but on /dev/sdb, the result is:
>> >>
>> >> Transport:          Serial, SATA 1.0a, SATA II Extensions, SATA Rev
>> 2.5,
>> >> SATA Rev 2.6, SATA Rev 3.0
>> >>
>> >> The e-SATA port is connected to a usm hot-swappable bay where I'm
>> >> supposed to be able to plug in a portable SATA drive.  The connector is
>> >> supposed to be a standard SATA connector.  I have never used this bay
>> so
>> >> far.
>> >>
>> >> It seems like I could either purchase an external SATA ssd and plug it
>> >> into the bay.  I don't know if I would have troubles booting from that
>> >> drive.
>> >>
>> >> OTOH, I could remove one of the HDDs and put the SSD into either
>> >> /dev/sda or /dev/sdb.  Presumably, I could put the HDD that was removed
>> >> into an enclosure allowing it to be placed into the swappable bay on
>> the
>> >> rare occasions that it was needed.
>> >>
>> >> 1)  Does it seem better to remove an HDD and put the ssd into that
>> space
>> >> vs. putting the ssd into the swappable bay?  Does it make a difference
>> >> if the ssd is put into the drive where /dev/sda is or /dev/sdb?
>> >>
>> >> 2)  Any suggestions on how large the ssd should be?
>> >>
>> >> 3)  Are there brands to avoid or brands that you would recommend?
>> >>
>> >> --Bob
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >
>>
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