<div dir="ltr"><div>I love this thread. Lots of people with great ideas and recommendations. I have some of the links bookmarked for when I get time to review :)</div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 7:50 PM David Jackson via Ale <<a href="mailto:ale@ale.org">ale@ale.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hey Bob,<div><br></div><div>>>>For the new desktop I'm leaning towards a cheap graphics card as</div>suggested by several along with the ryzen 5 3600 on a B450 motherboard.<br>(I'm not interested in gaming.) Is the cheap graphics card still a<br>reasonable choice if I have to record video?<div><<<</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>As far as the GPU choice, I would put the rx5700 as a very entry-level GPU. If you can spring for a beefier GPU, you'll notice a big improvement. Again, you video producers correct me where I'm wrong. AMD GPUs target the entry level up to the mid-range levels of GPU. For super heavy duty, it's all Nvidia. But super-heavy is around the $600 and up range.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>In full disclosure, I work for NVIDIA(not the commercial side - the data center side). I think AMD makes GPUs that are just great and I won't disparage them at all. But I like ours better and I did before I joined the company. :) On the NVIDIA side there are GeForce GPUs for a wide range of prices. A quick look at Newegg shows a new NVIDIA GPU starting at about $45 (GT710). This is a passively cooled card. My personal favorite passively cooled card is the GT1030 with 2GB of memory. There is one that costs $90 that I particularly like.<br></div><div><br></div><div>As you go up in price and performance then fans are added to the cards. I see some cards with 4GB of video memory under $200. For 6GB of video memory then it looks like you need to cross the $200 threshold (about $210).<br></div><div><br></div><div>What I personally do is find a price point that I'm comfortable with and look for NVIDIA GPUs that reach that price point. I also look at cards that are a little above that price point and a little below that. I target three cards that I like (the Three Bears so to speak). I then look around for performance tests of those cards. I'm not a gamer so I ignore the game results but I do look at the computational tests as well as video encoding/decoding tests. <br></div><div><br></div><div>I wait a couple of weeks if I can, and then see which of the three cards my "gut" says to go with. In general, I pick the one at my price point although for a couple of projects I chose the one that costs a little more. While my children were in school I tended to pick that one at my price point, but after they finished, I picked the ones that cost just a little more.</div><div><br></div><div>When you pick a video card, be sure that your case has room for it - particularly if the card is long or takes up two slots (this is true for NVIDIA or AMD). This has bitten me in the past.<br></div><div><br></div><div>As others say, I hope this helps.</div><div><br></div><div>Jeff</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:31 PM Bob via Ale <<a href="mailto:ale@ale.org" target="_blank">ale@ale.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
A couple more questions relating to building a desktop.<br>
<br>
1) My wife is sensitive to noise, and we're often working in the same <br>
office at home. She has mentioned that my current=old desktop is noisy. <br>
Even though I don't notice it unless I think about it, I have to agree.<br>
<br>
When building a new desktop, what things can/should I do to keep it <br>
reasonably quiet?<br>
<br>
2) I have to record several hours of video each week. I'm using <br>
obs-studio, and I think obs-studio has suggested a lower resolution due <br>
to the weak cpu.<br>
<br>
For the new desktop I'm leaning towards a cheap graphics card as <br>
suggested by several along with the ryzen 5 3600 on a B450 motherboard. <br>
(I'm not interested in gaming.) Is the cheap graphics card still a <br>
reasonable choice if I have to record video?<br>
<br>
BTW, something along the following is what I'm leaning towards building now:<br>
<br>
>> I tend to think the most "bang for the buck" system today (in my mind)<br>
>> would be a B450 motherboard with a Ryzen 5 3600, 16G RAM at about 3200 or<br>
>> faster, and I would go for an NVMe M.2 SSD at around 500G. You can use a<br>
>> cheap video card (about $35) and the case and power supply as your budget<br>
>> and preference dictates. Power supplies and cases are a bit more expensive<br>
>> these days, thanks to COVID-challenged supplies, but memory, ssd's and CPUs<br>
>> are relatively cheap. This system would cost you about $550-600 or so,<br>
>> depending on your choices. One example:<br>
>> <a href="https://pcpartpicker.com/user/deepbsd/saved/#view=6tqG3C" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pcpartpicker.com/user/deepbsd/saved/#view=6tqG3C</a><br>
<br>
--Bob<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2020-08-02 10:45 p.m., David Jackson wrote:<br>
> I tend to build a lot of systems, so my perspective is influenced by this<br>
> bias. But I'm unclear about your priorities.<br>
> <br>
> If you were doing something demanding (say rendering videos or doing heavy<br>
> computation or competitive gaming or whatever), you would be well beyond a<br>
> 3rd gen i5 cpu. Since 3rd gen Intel level of tech seems to suit you fine,<br>
> it seems to me your performance requirements are rather low. Another thing<br>
> I'm curious about is how much change are you willing to tolerate. Would a<br>
> lot of added performance be a bad thing or a good thing?<br>
> <br>
> I think you might be missing how easy it would be to get a *massive*<br>
> performance upgrade with a relatively slight effort or cost by upgrading<br>
> all your whole architecture. A LOT has changed since 3rd gen Intel was<br>
> current. For about the cost in difficulty and dollars in upgrading your<br>
> 3rd gen architecture, you could probably find a more current Ryzen system<br>
> that would give this massive upgrade. What has changed a lot very<br>
> recently is that AMD Ryzen normally beats Intel in terms of performance per<br>
> dollar (bang for the buck) nowadays. (I'm trying to keep it simple here.)<br>
> And the surrounding architecture has massively improved as well. Current<br>
> gen platforms are much more efficient and performant overall than a 3rd gen<br>
> i5 was.<br>
> <br>
> If you really prefer to "tough it out" on your current architecture, I<br>
> would have to infer that your priority has more to do with "optimizing the<br>
> last electron out of a potato" as I call it. There's a certain level of<br>
> pride geeks sometimes get over "doing the most with the least" technology.<br>
> If that's you, then nevermind. But it would help to know that "getting the<br>
> last ounce of performance out of your potato" is in fact a priority. If<br>
> that's true, there are other layers of complexity that might be of<br>
> interest, such as over clocking and water cooling, but cost and complexity<br>
> quickly become factors here. But if that seemed attractive to you, my<br>
> guess is your questions would have been very different.<br>
> <br>
> I tend to think the most "bang for the buck" system today (in my mind)<br>
> would be a B450 motherboard with a Ryzen 5 3600, 16G RAM at about 3200 or<br>
> faster, and I would go for an NVMe M.2 SSD at around 500G. You can use a<br>
> cheap video card (about $35) and the case and power supply as your budget<br>
> and preference dictates. Power supplies and cases are a bit more expensive<br>
> these days, thanks to COVID-challenged supplies, but memory, ssd's and CPUs<br>
> are relatively cheap. This system would cost you about $550-600 or so,<br>
> depending on your choices. One example:<br>
> <a href="https://pcpartpicker.com/user/deepbsd/saved/#view=6tqG3C" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pcpartpicker.com/user/deepbsd/saved/#view=6tqG3C</a><br>
> I wager this system would make you grin each time you sit down at your PC.<br>
> I'd also wager that the "grin factor" would quickly offset the dollar<br>
> damage.<br>
> <br>
> I would imagine your existing system might fetch $100 on ebay, possibly?<br>
> <br>
> Hope this helps.<br>
> <br>
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 12:16 PM Bob via Ale <<a href="mailto:ale@ale.org" target="_blank">ale@ale.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Charles has me thinking about upgrading my 8 year old lenovo desktop.<br>
>> I'm thinking of increasing memory and installing an ssd.<br>
>><br>
>> I don't know much about hardware, so I'm hoping some of you might give<br>
>> me some advice and maybe keep me from doing something stupid. I'm not a<br>
>> gamer, so that might make things simpler.<br>
>><br>
>> 1) Memory. Currently, there are two 4 GB ddr3 1600 memory modules in<br>
>> the two memory slots. There is no graphics card in my desktop and the<br>
>> integrated graphics uses some of the memory. I can upgrade to two 8 gb<br>
>> ddr3l 1600. According to <a href="http://crucial.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">crucial.com</a>, the crucial 16gb kit (2 x 8GB)<br>
>> ddr3l-1600 udimm are compatible.<br>
>><br>
>> I believe my motherboard can use either ddr3 or ddr3l. Is there an<br>
>> advantage of one over the other?<br>
>><br>
>> (The power supply unit has been fine, but it's only 280 watts. I don't<br>
>> know if that would affect the above choice or not.)<br>
>><br>
>> Microcenter has a variety of brands: Neo Forza, G. skills ripjaw,<br>
>> crucial, .... Are there brands to avoid? Are there brands that you'd<br>
>> recommend?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> 2) ssd. This seems more complicated.<br>
>><br>
>> There are 4 empty pci express slots---one is x16 and the others x1. I<br>
>> do not believe that the motherboard supports pcie ssd. The motherboard<br>
>> does not have mSATA or m.2 slots. So pcie ssd seems to be impossible.<br>
>> (I don't know what I'd ever use these slots for.)<br>
>><br>
>> The chipset on the motherboard only supports SATA at 3.0 gb/s. There<br>
>> are 3 SATA ports and one e-SATA port. (There has been no update to the<br>
>> bios/uefi firmware.)<br>
>><br>
>> One SATA port is connected to the optical drive, and the other two SATA<br>
>> ports are connected to the two 1TB HDDs Both drives have plenty of free<br>
>> space.<br>
>><br>
>> I don't know why I get slightly different info for the following. When<br>
>> I execute "sudo hdparm -I /dev/sda | grep SATA", the result is:<br>
>><br>
>> Transport: Serial, SATA Rev 3.0<br>
>><br>
>> but on /dev/sdb, the result is:<br>
>><br>
>> Transport: Serial, SATA 1.0a, SATA II Extensions, SATA Rev 2.5,<br>
>> SATA Rev 2.6, SATA Rev 3.0<br>
>><br>
>> The e-SATA port is connected to a usm hot-swappable bay where I'm<br>
>> supposed to be able to plug in a portable SATA drive. The connector is<br>
>> supposed to be a standard SATA connector. I have never used this bay so<br>
>> far.<br>
>><br>
>> It seems like I could either purchase an external SATA ssd and plug it<br>
>> into the bay. I don't know if I would have troubles booting from that<br>
>> drive.<br>
>><br>
>> OTOH, I could remove one of the HDDs and put the SSD into either<br>
>> /dev/sda or /dev/sdb. Presumably, I could put the HDD that was removed<br>
>> into an enclosure allowing it to be placed into the swappable bay on the<br>
>> rare occasions that it was needed.<br>
>><br>
>> 1) Does it seem better to remove an HDD and put the ssd into that space<br>
>> vs. putting the ssd into the swappable bay? Does it make a difference<br>
>> if the ssd is put into the drive where /dev/sda is or /dev/sdb?<br>
>><br>
>> 2) Any suggestions on how large the ssd should be?<br>
>><br>
>> 3) Are there brands to avoid or brands that you would recommend?<br>
>><br>
>> --Bob<br>
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> <br>
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