[ale] OT Open-source energy (fuel from air)

[Jay Lozier]

On 11/28/2012 04:04 PM, Jim Kinney wrote:
> I saw a blurb on this process a while back. A potential semi-practical
> use was to use this in the stack of a power plant or cement factory.
> Extremely high CO2 and heat.
>
> Can't recall the blurb right now but a claim is out that a catalyst
> has been found that lowers the hydrolysis energy level. I didn't read
> the whole thing but vaguely recall some chemistry that sounded fishy.
The hydrogenation process requires a catalyst. Catalysis is actually 
quite common in chemistry because the are two problems to overcome for a 
reaction to occur. Thermodynamics determines whether the process can 
occur in the direction desired - the pressure and temperature 
requirements are usually a good clue. Kinetics is that even if the 
overall thermodynamics are favorable the molecules must collide with 
sufficient ("activation") energy and in the correct geometry for 
reaction to occur. The pressure and temperature are also a factor. 
Catalysts improve the overall kinetics of the reaction not the 
thermodynamics and my guess would lower the temperature some but not the 
pressure.
>
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 3:49 PM, Jay Lozier <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11/28/2012 02:01 PM, Rich Faulkner wrote:
>>
>> Found this via CNN and thought I'd share:
>>
>> http://www.airfuelsynthesis.com/investment-opportunity/projects/1000-tonne-a-day-plant-.html
>>
>> The gist of it is to take carbon dioxide and react it with hydrogen
>> separated from water to create methanol.  Best of all, IT WORKS!!!
>>
>> Will be following this with great interest!
>>
>> Cheers!    Rich in Lilburn
>>
>> Looking at their blurb I am not convinced as a chemist the process will be
>> commercially viable. Electrolysis of water requires dc current breakdown the
>> water in hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogenation reaction to methanol or
>> methane appears to require both pressure and temperature; more energy
>> inputs; for the reaction to occur. They posit using only solar energy which
>> will probably limit the locations a plant can be built - the middle of a
>> desert for best solar efficiency.
>>
>> The basic thermodynamics of the propose process will require energy inputs
>> in as electric current, pressure, and heat for the required reactions to
>> occur. They do not occur spontaneously under normal pressures and
>> temperature. Whether this is overall a better process I do not know but I
>> tend to doubt it or it would be used commercially. The actual reactions have
>> been know and studied for sometime with vary degrees of enthusiasm.
>>
>> Another issue is the concentration of carbon dioxide is in the atmosphere is
>> about 0.04% and the amount of water for comparison is typically  1% near the
>> surface. So they will need to concentrate the carbon dioxide to have an
>> efficient process; more energy.
>>
>> --
>> Jay Lozier
>> jslozier at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>
>


-- 
Jay Lozier
jslozier at gmail.com