[ale] Voting machines

[Jim Kinney]

Hell. Pay people $25 to cast a ballot. That's the "thanks for showing up" pay for jury duty. Another civic responsibility.



On December 8, 2020 12:57:36 PM EST, David Askew via Ale <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>> Maybe I'm just snarky, but I sort off think the Sec of State pay 
>> should be tied to voter turn out.
>
>I like the sound of that.  Start paying bonuses for voter turnout 
>thresholds and that might be money well spent.
>
>On 8 Dec 2020, at 12:48, Jim Kinney via Ale wrote:
>
>> Yep! As a computer professional, I don't in general trust the things.
>>
>> Colorado does all paper ballots. Seems to work very well.
>>
>> I think the computer ballot is a ploy to spend $$.
>>
>> That said, the big screens are a huge fav amongst the disability 
>> crowd. So keep some. Maybe mobile voting booths for those that need 
>> them. Don't really care as long as every eligible voter has an 
>> opportunity to participate that is ideally identical in accessibility
>
>> and performance as every other eligible voter.
>>
>> Maybe I'm just snarky, but I sort off think the Sec of State pay 
>> should be tied to voter turn out.
>>
>> We can do better. We have certainly done worse.
>>
>> On December 8, 2020 11:44:36 AM EST, DJ-Pfulio via Ale <ale at ale.org> 
>> wrote:
>>> I disagree with having any voting machines at all. They are a waste
>>> of money, add complexity where it isn't needed.
>>>
>>> Voting in Georgia has 2 complex processes (election day and early
>>> voting) and 1 simple process (absentee) when only 1 simple process
>>> is needed.  Pen and paper.
>>>
>>> Why make it harder than that?
>>>
>>> Pen and paper can be used for absentee, early and election day
>>> voting. Humans (election workers) don't need to learn 2 complex
>>> processes and waste time setting up computers, securing power,
>>> equipment, and generally wasting money for things not directly
>>> related to reading a ballot.
>>>
>>> Paper ballots scale by adding tables and chairs.
>>> Power outages don't stop voting.
>>>
>>> Missing memory cards?  Huh? Why is that even a thing?  Human
>training
>>> failures will continue to happen, as long as the processes are 
>>> complex.
>>>
>>> Pen and paper is the answer.
>>>
>>> Question: Why don't ACT/SAT use computers for testing kids?
>>> Answer: because it is a stupid idea due to logistics, expense,
>>>        complexity.
>>>
>>> If I had my way, Georgia would move towards the way that Oregon
>>> votes and registers voters. The goal is to get every Georgia citizen
>>> to vote legally and to allow citizens who choose not to vote or be
>>> registered to do that as well. But it needs to be harder NOT to be
>>> registered than to get registered, not the other way around.
>>>
>>> Voting on my kitchen table, where I can spend a few days looking
>>> through candidates, their platforms, and considering each is much
>>> better than "winging it" on election day after waiting in line.
>>> Someone said they "only" had to wait in line 2 hours to vote early
>>> in October.  That's a waste of time. Have the absentee ballot 
>>> delivered
>>> to your home, then vote when it is convenient to you any time before
>>> election day.
>>>
>>> If your postal delivery isn't secure, then use early voting ... or
>>> pick up a ballot package, take it home. This isn't possible today in
>>> Georgia, but hopefully they will make it so. No need to have both
>>> early voting as a separate process.
>>>
>>> I love the ballot drop off boxes. Simple, elegant, convenient. No 
>>> need
>>> to trust the USPS, if you don't want that.
>>>
>>> In Oregon, they've not seen any widespread voting fraud in the 20+ 
>>> yrs
>>> they've been voting by mail. Seems like a good system to me. 
>>> Definitely
>>> more convenient.
>>>
>>> IMHO.
>>>
>>> On 12/8/20 11:23 AM, Jim Kinney via Ale wrote:
>>>> The current process with text and QR codes is an improvement. If
>the
>>>> validation also includes extensive spot checks that QR matches
>text,
>>>> it's a good indicator things are OK.
>>>>
>>>> I've not seen if that was done but it seems the powers that run the
>>>> election are trying to get it into an acceptable process.
>>>>
>>>> If the scanner into the bin also included a display with a choice
>to
>>>> approve of disapprove the scanning, that would satisfy me the 
>>>> scanner
>>>> works as designed. If approved, votes are cast. If not, ballot is
>>>> rejected and some validation testing is done including destruction 
>>>> of
>>>> ballot and recreation of ballot by voter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On December 8, 2020 10:21:31 AM EST, Adrya Stembridge via Ale
>>>> <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is there still a lingering belief that Georgia's election results
>>>> (specifically) are suspect?  The Carter Center independently
>oversaw
>>>> the election and hand paper recounts and found zero evidence of
>>>> fraud.  The big question is in light of what evidence is available,
>>>> should we distrust Georgia's new voting machines going forward?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:16 AM Bruno Bronosky via Ale <ale at ale.org
>>>> <mailto:ale at ale.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I don't think we should engage it support or position to
>>>> political candidates or parties on this list. We have, however,
>>>> discussed policies since it's inception. We have always limited 
>>>> those
>>>> policy discussions to what is relevant to Open Source software. I
>>>> would like to think that we can ignore the candidates and come
>>>> together around the idea that transparent and accurate elections
>are
>>>> essential. As "software socialists" I don't think any of us are
>>>> likely to find a politician* we would feel justified in
>advocating**
>>>> for to this audience (**which is what we all want to avoid). For 
>>>> that
>>>> reason I don't think we need to be afraid to discuss voting
>>>> technology.
>>>>
>>>> * I've never heard of a major politician insisting that any
>software
>>>> purchased by the government is owned by the tax payers and that at
>a
>>>> minimum we should all be free to run it, but ultimately we should
>>>> also be Free to exercise the 4 Freedoms of Free Software.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 10:24 PM SpaXpert, Inc. <spaxpert at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:spaxpert at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It's the biggest hot potato of the century Bruno.  I get it that
>>>> nobody wants to speak up because that could cause a huge political
>>>> divide amongst the ALE group. We really don't need this discourse
>as
>>>> we all seem to get along here with our problem solving and missions
>>>> in mind. Take care man. Doug
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 11:16 PM Bruno Bronosky via Ale <ale at ale.org
>>>> <mailto:ale at ale.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I know this used to be a big issue with this group. I'm surprised
>>>> there's no talk of it now.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ale mailing list
>>> Ale at ale.org
>>> https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>> -- 
>> Computers amplify human error
>> Super computers are really cool
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo

-- 
Computers amplify human error
Super computers are really cool
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20201208/20299768/attachment.html>