[ale] Voting machines

Tue Dec 8 12:57:36 EST 2020

> Maybe I'm just snarky, but I sort off think the Sec of State pay 
> should be tied to voter turn out.

I like the sound of that.  Start paying bonuses for voter turnout 
thresholds and that might be money well spent.

On 8 Dec 2020, at 12:48, Jim Kinney via Ale wrote:

> Yep! As a computer professional, I don't in general trust the things.
>
> Colorado does all paper ballots. Seems to work very well.
>
> I think the computer ballot is a ploy to spend $$.
>
> That said, the big screens are a huge fav amongst the disability 
> crowd. So keep some. Maybe mobile voting booths for those that need 
> them. Don't really care as long as every eligible voter has an 
> opportunity to participate that is ideally identical in accessibility 
> and performance as every other eligible voter.
>
> Maybe I'm just snarky, but I sort off think the Sec of State pay 
> should be tied to voter turn out.
>
> We can do better. We have certainly done worse.
>
> On December 8, 2020 11:44:36 AM EST, DJ-Pfulio via Ale <ale at ale.org> 
> wrote:
>> I disagree with having any voting machines at all. They are a waste
>> of money, add complexity where it isn't needed.
>>
>> Voting in Georgia has 2 complex processes (election day and early
>> voting) and 1 simple process (absentee) when only 1 simple process
>> is needed.  Pen and paper.
>>
>> Why make it harder than that?
>>
>> Pen and paper can be used for absentee, early and election day
>> voting. Humans (election workers) don't need to learn 2 complex
>> processes and waste time setting up computers, securing power,
>> equipment, and generally wasting money for things not directly
>> related to reading a ballot.
>>
>> Paper ballots scale by adding tables and chairs.
>> Power outages don't stop voting.
>>
>> Missing memory cards?  Huh? Why is that even a thing?  Human training
>> failures will continue to happen, as long as the processes are 
>> complex.
>>
>> Pen and paper is the answer.
>>
>> Question: Why don't ACT/SAT use computers for testing kids?
>> Answer: because it is a stupid idea due to logistics, expense,
>>        complexity.
>>
>> If I had my way, Georgia would move towards the way that Oregon
>> votes and registers voters. The goal is to get every Georgia citizen
>> to vote legally and to allow citizens who choose not to vote or be
>> registered to do that as well. But it needs to be harder NOT to be
>> registered than to get registered, not the other way around.
>>
>> Voting on my kitchen table, where I can spend a few days looking
>> through candidates, their platforms, and considering each is much
>> better than "winging it" on election day after waiting in line.
>> Someone said they "only" had to wait in line 2 hours to vote early
>> in October.  That's a waste of time. Have the absentee ballot 
>> delivered
>> to your home, then vote when it is convenient to you any time before
>> election day.
>>
>> If your postal delivery isn't secure, then use early voting ... or
>> pick up a ballot package, take it home. This isn't possible today in
>> Georgia, but hopefully they will make it so. No need to have both
>> early voting as a separate process.
>>
>> I love the ballot drop off boxes. Simple, elegant, convenient. No 
>> need
>> to trust the USPS, if you don't want that.
>>
>> In Oregon, they've not seen any widespread voting fraud in the 20+ 
>> yrs
>> they've been voting by mail. Seems like a good system to me. 
>> Definitely
>> more convenient.
>>
>> IMHO.
>>
>> On 12/8/20 11:23 AM, Jim Kinney via Ale wrote:
>>> The current process with text and QR codes is an improvement. If the
>>> validation also includes extensive spot checks that QR matches text,
>>> it's a good indicator things are OK.
>>>
>>> I've not seen if that was done but it seems the powers that run the
>>> election are trying to get it into an acceptable process.
>>>
>>> If the scanner into the bin also included a display with a choice to
>>> approve of disapprove the scanning, that would satisfy me the 
>>> scanner
>>> works as designed. If approved, votes are cast. If not, ballot is
>>> rejected and some validation testing is done including destruction 
>>> of
>>> ballot and recreation of ballot by voter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On December 8, 2020 10:21:31 AM EST, Adrya Stembridge via Ale
>>> <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there still a lingering belief that Georgia's election results
>>> (specifically) are suspect?  The Carter Center independently oversaw
>>> the election and hand paper recounts and found zero evidence of
>>> fraud.  The big question is in light of what evidence is available,
>>> should we distrust Georgia's new voting machines going forward?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:16 AM Bruno Bronosky via Ale <ale at ale.org
>>> <mailto:ale at ale.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, I don't think we should engage it support or position to
>>> political candidates or parties on this list. We have, however,
>>> discussed policies since it's inception. We have always limited 
>>> those
>>> policy discussions to what is relevant to Open Source software. I
>>> would like to think that we can ignore the candidates and come
>>> together around the idea that transparent and accurate elections are
>>> essential. As "software socialists" I don't think any of us are
>>> likely to find a politician* we would feel justified in advocating**
>>> for to this audience (**which is what we all want to avoid). For 
>>> that
>>> reason I don't think we need to be afraid to discuss voting
>>> technology.
>>>
>>> * I've never heard of a major politician insisting that any software
>>> purchased by the government is owned by the tax payers and that at a
>>> minimum we should all be free to run it, but ultimately we should
>>> also be Free to exercise the 4 Freedoms of Free Software.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 10:24 PM SpaXpert, Inc. <spaxpert at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:spaxpert at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> It's the biggest hot potato of the century Bruno.  I get it that
>>> nobody wants to speak up because that could cause a huge political
>>> divide amongst the ALE group. We really don't need this discourse as
>>> we all seem to get along here with our problem solving and missions
>>> in mind. Take care man. Doug
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 11:16 PM Bruno Bronosky via Ale <ale at ale.org
>>> <mailto:ale at ale.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I know this used to be a big issue with this group. I'm surprised
>>> there's no talk of it now.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> -- 
> Computers amplify human error
> Super computers are really cool

> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20201208/624ca198/attachment.html>