[ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!

Thu Apr 14 17:11:59 EDT 2016

Good read, Scott. I missed that the drac card was extra. Most of new the
gear I get now is supermicro and it always has the ipmi interface included.
On Apr 14, 2016 5:08 PM, "Scott Plante" <splante at insightsys.com> wrote:

> It would be total overkill for a firewall box. I would load XenServer or
> VMWare ESXi on it--then you could create 15-30 different Linux VMs with
> that memory and test out your Ansible/Puppet/Chef scripting, maybe some
> database replication, and load balancing.  You could mix in the odd BSD and
> maybe Windows Server to try out various cross-platform scenarios. As for
> power and noise, you could use it for learning and shut it down when you're
> not using it. Just get some nice noise cancelling headphones for while
> you're working!
>
> If you're interested in IPMI, it looks like the DRAC card isn't included
> but they have them for additional cost.
>
> Scott
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Alex Carver" <agcarver+ale at acarver.net>
> *To: *ale at ale.org
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 14, 2016 4:02:52 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!
>
> What interests me about these servers is the dual NIC.    I have the
> similar thought about the fans as Scott because one of these would be
> perfect as my firewall/gateway/NAT box.  I was otherwise looking at a
> fanless dual-NIC Intel NUC box for the same purpose.
>
> On 2016-04-14 12:26, Karenga Smith wrote:
> > Wow interesting I may have to consider getting one myself!
> > Thanks
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
> > <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     On the whole, I agree with all of what was said. Server gear is
> designed to
> >     RUN FOREVER and desktop gear is designed to SELL IN THE MILLIONS.
> Totally
> >     different engineering viewpoints.
> >
> >     For the beginner Linux newbie, I would argue the server is the
> hardware to
> >     learn on for the aspiring professional. That said, any decent
> machine will
> >     provide expertise in Linux skilz :-)
> >
> >     Buying a used server for $200 beats the used desktop for the same
> price from
> >     a professional standpoint in most cases. Unless the plan is to do big
> >     graphic processing for artists doing 3D design, desktops are
> generally
> >     disposable crap hardware. The server gear _is_ more costly not just
> because
> >     of quantity price issues but because of engineered robustness.
> >
> >     Dual power supplies don't pull much more power that a single one.
> The total
> >     load is split between the two plus a tiny fraction for monitoring and
> >     inefficiency losses.
> >
> >     The power used by servers is what ever load is required of them. The
> Intel
> >     systems will use more power per cpu flop than the Opteron ones. All
> can
> >     throttle back clock speed to cut power when unused.
> >
> >     Fan noise on 1U machines is a problem. Desktops have huge fans and
> can turn
> >     slower to move the same amount of air and thus less noise.
> >
> >     IPMI ports should NEVER be wired up to touch LAN or certainly not
> Internet
> >     networks. Some Dells have a shared ILO/nic which kills using one nic
> for
> >     much of anything.
> >
> >     But ipmi is really cool!
> >
> >     On Apr 14, 2016 7:27 AM, "DJ-Pfulio" <djpfulio at jdpfu.com
> >     <mailto:djpfulio at jdpfu.com>> wrote:
> >
> >         "Server" hardware has many downsides.
> >         * Power use - often these things have redundant PSUs; Server
> power use
> >         has been
> >         reduced greatly, but is still higher than desktops (for good
> reason).
> >         * Heat - more power become more heat. Think about the July/August
> >         electric bill.
> >         * Noise - ever been inside a data center? Noise isn't **any**
> consideration.
> >         * Higher cost of upgrades/replacement parts, usually.
> >
> >         A few pluses:
> >         * Huge amount of RAM / ECC RAM
> >         * Server-class CPUs
> >         * Rack mounting (may not be a plus)
> >
> >         But Jim is right. Sometimes there are things that only server
> machines have
> >         which are worth having hands-on experience with - IPMI for
> example. How
> >         do lock
> >         that down, since almost all IPMI has huge security issues.
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface
> >
> >         Some of the Core i7 and multi-core AMD desktop CPUs are really
> >         impressive, so
> >         getting a "server" CPU isn't that important for a home user. Of
> course, they
> >         will use lots of power too, when a 53W system might be all that
> is required.
> >
> >         ECC RAM - if you run ZFS, get ECC RAM. Lots of it.  Some desktop
> MBs
> >         support ECC
> >         and I have a hard time thinking of what someone at home would do
> with
> >         32G of RAM
> >         inside a system.  Met a guy with 96G of RAM in his box, but he
> was running
> >         Windows. From what he described, sounded like 8G of RAM would
> have been
> >         overkill
> >         to me.  So he was stuck with this server-class box, 5+ yr old
> CPUs and
> >         96G of
> >         RAM that a new Core i7 would have blown away for $1K total
> system cost.
> >
> >         The point is that home server hardware to learn on isn't bad
> when it is
> >         cheap,
> >         but if you spend $4k+ on it, you'll find that it is like an
> albatross
> >         following
> >         you around for years.
> >
> >         It is noisy and sucks 2x-4x more power than a desktop system.
> >
> >
> >         On 04/13/2016 11:23 PM, Scott M. Jones wrote:
> >          > Does it have a loud fan? That might be the down side...
> >          >
> >          > On Apr 12, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
> >         <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>
> >          > <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>>>
> wrote:
> >          >
> >          >> I don't push hardware unless it's mine or I'm just drooling
> over it.
> >          >>
> >          >> However....
> >          >>
> >          >> http://ebay.to/1VSdviy
> >          >>
> >          >> That's a bitly link to an ebay listing for several Dell 1U
> systems.
> >         They have
> >          >> the basics of everything to get jumping on Linux from power
> >         management to
> >          >> virtualization all for $213 (including shipping). These are
> >         reliable, solid
> >          >> machines that are out of date for current commercial use
> (DDR2 RAM
> >         is far more
> >          >> costly that DDR3 per GB) but perfect for someone who wants
> >         server-class gear
> >          >> at home to learn on.
> >          >>
> >          >> I usually get supermicro but they all have odd quirks that
> make them
> >         a pain.
> >          >> New ones are a great deal on that price/power/pain curve.
> Dell is
> >         over priced
> >          >> when new. IBM is stupidly over priced new (and used!).
> >          >>
> >          >> Just my $0.02
>
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