[ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!

[Scott Plante]

It would be total overkill for a firewall box. I would load XenServer or VMWare ESXi on it--then you could create 15-30 different Linux VMs with that memory and test out your Ansible/Puppet/Chef scripting, maybe some database replication, and load balancing. You could mix in the odd BSD and maybe Windows Server to try out various cross-platform scenarios. As for power and noise, you could use it for learning and shut it down when you're not using it. Just get some nice noise cancelling headphones for while you're working! 


If you're interested in IPMI, it looks like the DRAC card isn't included but they have them for additional cost. 


Scott 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Alex Carver" <agcarver+ale at acarver.net> 
To: ale at ale.org 
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 4:02:52 PM 
Subject: Re: [ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner! 

What interests me about these servers is the dual NIC. I have the 
similar thought about the fans as Scott because one of these would be 
perfect as my firewall/gateway/NAT box. I was otherwise looking at a 
fanless dual-NIC Intel NUC box for the same purpose. 

On 2016-04-14 12:26, Karenga Smith wrote: 
> Wow interesting I may have to consider getting one myself! 
> Thanks 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com 
> <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote: 
> 
> On the whole, I agree with all of what was said. Server gear is designed to 
> RUN FOREVER and desktop gear is designed to SELL IN THE MILLIONS. Totally 
> different engineering viewpoints. 
> 
> For the beginner Linux newbie, I would argue the server is the hardware to 
> learn on for the aspiring professional. That said, any decent machine will 
> provide expertise in Linux skilz :-) 
> 
> Buying a used server for $200 beats the used desktop for the same price from 
> a professional standpoint in most cases. Unless the plan is to do big 
> graphic processing for artists doing 3D design, desktops are generally 
> disposable crap hardware. The server gear _is_ more costly not just because 
> of quantity price issues but because of engineered robustness. 
> 
> Dual power supplies don't pull much more power that a single one. The total 
> load is split between the two plus a tiny fraction for monitoring and 
> inefficiency losses. 
> 
> The power used by servers is what ever load is required of them. The Intel 
> systems will use more power per cpu flop than the Opteron ones. All can 
> throttle back clock speed to cut power when unused. 
> 
> Fan noise on 1U machines is a problem. Desktops have huge fans and can turn 
> slower to move the same amount of air and thus less noise. 
> 
> IPMI ports should NEVER be wired up to touch LAN or certainly not Internet 
> networks. Some Dells have a shared ILO/nic which kills using one nic for 
> much of anything. 
> 
> But ipmi is really cool! 
> 
> On Apr 14, 2016 7:27 AM, "DJ-Pfulio" <djpfulio at jdpfu.com 
> <mailto:djpfulio at jdpfu.com>> wrote: 
> 
> "Server" hardware has many downsides. 
> * Power use - often these things have redundant PSUs; Server power use 
> has been 
> reduced greatly, but is still higher than desktops (for good reason). 
> * Heat - more power become more heat. Think about the July/August 
> electric bill. 
> * Noise - ever been inside a data center? Noise isn't **any** consideration. 
> * Higher cost of upgrades/replacement parts, usually. 
> 
> A few pluses: 
> * Huge amount of RAM / ECC RAM 
> * Server-class CPUs 
> * Rack mounting (may not be a plus) 
> 
> But Jim is right. Sometimes there are things that only server machines have 
> which are worth having hands-on experience with - IPMI for example. How 
> do lock 
> that down, since almost all IPMI has huge security issues. 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface 
> 
> Some of the Core i7 and multi-core AMD desktop CPUs are really 
> impressive, so 
> getting a "server" CPU isn't that important for a home user. Of course, they 
> will use lots of power too, when a 53W system might be all that is required. 
> 
> ECC RAM - if you run ZFS, get ECC RAM. Lots of it. Some desktop MBs 
> support ECC 
> and I have a hard time thinking of what someone at home would do with 
> 32G of RAM 
> inside a system. Met a guy with 96G of RAM in his box, but he was running 
> Windows. From what he described, sounded like 8G of RAM would have been 
> overkill 
> to me. So he was stuck with this server-class box, 5+ yr old CPUs and 
> 96G of 
> RAM that a new Core i7 would have blown away for $1K total system cost. 
> 
> The point is that home server hardware to learn on isn't bad when it is 
> cheap, 
> but if you spend $4k+ on it, you'll find that it is like an albatross 
> following 
> you around for years. 
> 
> It is noisy and sucks 2x-4x more power than a desktop system. 
> 
> 
> On 04/13/2016 11:23 PM, Scott M. Jones wrote: 
> > Does it have a loud fan? That might be the down side... 
> > 
> > On Apr 12, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com 
> <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com> 
> > <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>>> wrote: 
> > 
> >> I don't push hardware unless it's mine or I'm just drooling over it. 
> >> 
> >> However.... 
> >> 
> >> http://ebay.to/1VSdviy 
> >> 
> >> That's a bitly link to an ebay listing for several Dell 1U systems. 
> They have 
> >> the basics of everything to get jumping on Linux from power 
> management to 
> >> virtualization all for $213 (including shipping). These are 
> reliable, solid 
> >> machines that are out of date for current commercial use (DDR2 RAM 
> is far more 
> >> costly that DDR3 per GB) but perfect for someone who wants 
> server-class gear 
> >> at home to learn on. 
> >> 
> >> I usually get supermicro but they all have odd quirks that make them 
> a pain. 
> >> New ones are a great deal on that price/power/pain curve. Dell is 
> over priced 
> >> when new. IBM is stupidly over priced new (and used!). 
> >> 
> >> Just my $0.02 

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