[ale] [Fwd: Advertising on ale.org] - OT MS vs Apple vs Linux/UNIX

Tue Sep 15 10:52:22 EDT 2015

+1 for that.

On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 10:47 AM, Scott Plante <splante at insightsys.com>
wrote:

> Or when "9/11 Truthers" would argue that jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough
> to melt the steel girders in the towers, I'd ask, "but what about those
> tanks of chemicals they use to make the chemtrails? Who knows how hot that
> stuff burns?"
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Charles Shapiro" <hooterpincher at gmail.com>
> *To: *"Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, September 15, 2015 9:31:15 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [ale] [Fwd: Advertising on ale.org] - OT MS vs Apple
> vs        Linux/UNIX
>
> I chalk it all up to the Moon Landing Conspiracy. The moon landings were
> all faked, in a studio ON THE MOON.
>
> --  CHS
>
> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 4:58 PM, Damon L. Chesser <damon at damtek.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 09/12/2015 04:21 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 22:17:46 +0300
>>> damon at damtek.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Ahhh. No
>>>> It is in response to the long thread and the strong opinions in the
>>>> thread and in fact was not directed at you or anybody else
>>>> specifically.  And IAW Godwin's law, I have now lost the debate.
>>>>
>>> Yes, you have. Godwin's law doesn't work anymore, and it was always in
>>> bad taste.
>>>
>>> Seriously, it was merely meant in jest. Don't like systemd, don't use
>>>> it. Like systemd, use it.
>>>>
>>> The preceding two sentences encapsulate the entire issue.
>>>
>>> If systemd were just another modular, replaceable init, everyone you
>>> hear cursing it would be dancing in the streets. And truth be told, a
>>> lot of us might then choose to use systemd in certain use cases.
>>>
>>> The problem is, systemd has been engineered from the ground up to
>>> exchange dependencies with every part of the Linux system. The
>>> motivations for doing this are up for debate, but most folks who have
>>> every alt-initted a system will vouch for this: Once you're using a
>>> distro that has incorporated systemd as PID1, replacing systemd or any
>>> part of it is very, very difficult.
>>>
>>> For instance, if you currently have sysvinit, OpenRC, runit, s6 or
>>> Epoch, switching to runit, s6 or Epoch involves installing the new
>>> init, making a new run script (runit or s6) or config section (Epoch)
>>> for each *real* process (not the tens of no-reason processes and
>>> one-shots run by systemd). Not trivial, but not difficult for a Linux
>>> knowledgeable person. You also have to make a shutdown script, and you
>>> can find a lot of boilerplate for that on the Internet. It's also
>>> possible that you'll need to make minor alterations to your initramfs,
>>> but that's actually doubtful.
>>>
>>> Same thing with a systemd computer: Replace it with runit, s6 or Epoch.
>>> Now you need to find a udev equivalent, compile it, get it working. Or
>>> else you need to do a lot of workarounds with systemd's udev. You need
>>> to take dracut, and use it to create an initramfs that does *nothing
>>> but* mount the root partition, and then hand control to the on-disk
>>> init. As you do this, contemplate the trouble you'll be in if the
>>> systemd industry ever conquers dracut, the way it conquered udev. If
>>> so, you'll be back to hand-creating initramfs. And of course you'll
>>> need to do all the same things I mentioned when describing alt-initting
>>> a non-systemd box.
>>>
>>> Consider that if sysvinit had been as monolithically entangled with the
>>> user portion of the OS (and the kernel if they get their way with
>>> kdbus) as systemd is, Red Hat would have had to spend triple what they
>>> did to create a replacement init. But like all the other inits except
>>> systemd, sysvinit is an encapsulated PID1 plus service manager, so it
>>> was easy to replace. The systemd industry climbed the ladder of
>>> modularity, and then pulled the ladder up after them.
>>>
>>> I understand you're probably init agnostic, and that's fine. But you
>>> need to be thankful for the people working hard to provide alternatives
>>> to the Redhat funded juggernaut, because if Redhat ever succeeds in
>>> eliminating alternatives to systemd, they'll have a monopoly on Linux.
>>> Most entities who gain a monopoly do not behave well, and the user pays
>>> the price.
>>>
>>
>> I am with Michael on this point.  I am init agnostic and just don't care,
>> but to claim the evil empire of Red Hat is behind this?  Seems a bit
>> bombastic?  We all know the freedom haters of Debian remove choice at every
>> turn, and that is why they are backing the init choice of systemd.  Once
>> Red Hat controls everything, then Debian can finally close down. Who needs
>> those pesky Debian dev meetings anyway?  Always yammering about some social
>> contract this and social contract that.
>>
>> Gento wanted to give it's users only one choice, most like due to Red Hat
>> financial interests, but the user base needed to be appeased, so they gave
>> you a "choice" of which system to use when you installed it. Some choice.
>> Systemd or the old system!  Ha! Only two choices!  Proof they are in league!
>>
>>>
>>> SteveT
>>>
>>> Steve Litt
>>> August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
>>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> Damon at damtek.com
>> 404-271-8699
>>
>>
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>
>
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-- 
Pete Hardie
--------
Better Living Through Bitmaps
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