[ale] OT CFL cleanup / LED light bulbs starting to become affordable
Jay Lozier
jslozier at gmail.com
Wed Jul 3 14:25:05 EDT 2013
The carbon dioxide emissions are dependent on the power plant mix. But one
has the other pollution issues that are completely ignored with the
battery manufacturing/recycling and with electric power transmission to
recharge the batteries.
On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 14:04:18 -0400, Ron Frazier (ALE)
<atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com> wrote:
> I have a friend that worked for the the power company (Southern Co, Ga
> Power). His department did research into electric vehicles. Granted,
> the source is biased, but, he said that the emissions from a power plant
> due to powering a fleet of electric vehicles would be less than the same
> fleet of gas powered vehicles. This is due to the scrubbing systems and
> economies of scale of the power plant, versus the lack therof on
> thousands of small engines. I don't know if that's true or not, but it
> sounded good.
>
> (Must do something today besides email, but these conversations are
> interesting.)
>
> Ron
>
>
> Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> +2 on humor :-)
>>
>> EPA doesn't define jobs as "green" or any color. That's marketing
>> speak!
>>
>> I agree on electric cars mostly. It exchanges mobile air pollution (and
>> water from leaks) for stationary air pollution and battery waste. At
>> least
>> the batteries can be recycled back into more batteries.
>>
>> On the topic of electric cars:
>>
>> They should be REQUIRED to have a sound!!! I about was run over in a
>> parking desk by a Prius! I propose that HannaBarberra provide the sound
>> of
>> George Jetson's flying car to all electric car makers as a gift so we
>> can
>> at least pretend the world has advanced and hear the cars approaching.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Jay Lozier <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> **
>>> +1 humor
>>>
>>> The EPA's definition of "green" jobs and mine are very different. I
>> prefer
>>> to focus on the entire process not just one aspect of the problem.
>> Often
>>> "green" iniatives just shuffle the type of pollution problem and
>> pollution
>>> sources around without really reducing the overall pollution.
>>>
>>> For a variety of reasons I view all-electric cars as environmental
>>> pollution shuffling resulting no net gain. There may be a
>> substitution of
>>> some heavy metal pollution in lieu of carbon dioxide. This may not be
>> a
>>> wise trade-off. And the location of the carbon dioxide production has
>> been
>>> moved from the tail pipe to the power plant.
>>>
>>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:49:38 -0400, Richard Bronosky
>> <richard at bronosky.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> But CFLs create "green jobs"!
>>> On Jul 3, 2013 12:43 PM, "Jay Lozier" <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> In a previous job I got very familiar with the EPA rules which
>> lowered my
>>>> already low opinion of the EPA. One problem is that the disposal of
>> the CFL
>>>> bulbs should be at a hazardous waste facility certified to handle
>> mercury
>>>> not at a non-hazardous sanitary landfill. Technically you could be
>> charged
>>>> with a federal felony if you improperly dispose a hazardous waste -
>> I am
>>>> not sure if there are any minimum quantity.
>>>>
>>>> While incandescent bulbs used more energy they were non-hazardous
>> waste
>>>> when they burnt out.
>>>>
>>>> Also, CFL can aggravate certain medical problems which incandescent
>> bulbs
>>>> never did.
>>>>
>>>> Often overlooked is the manufacturing process for CFL and LED bulbs
>> may
>>>> be more damaging to the environment than for incandescent bulbs even
>> with
>>>> the higher energy consumption.
>>>>
>>>> Jay
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:16:18 -0400, Ron Frazier (ALE) <
>>>> atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Just wanted to drop a note about some LED light bulbs I've seen
>>>>> recently. As you may know, the manufacture of incandescent light
>> bulbs is
>>>>> being phased out. The best current alternative is the compact
>> fluorescent
>>>>> (CFL). These work well, and use about 1/4 the energy of an
>> incandescent.
>>>>> The problem is that they have toxic mercury. If you break one,
>> you have
>>>>> to take special steps to avoid exposure to mercury or mercury
>> vapor.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can find info here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www2.epa.gov/cfl
>>>>>
>>>>> I had the (not) fun of experiencing the cleanup procedure the other
>> day.
>>>>> I dropped one of these and it shattered. I put on vinyl gloves
>> and
>>>>> removed every fragment I could find. I then wiped the carpet with
>> a damp
>>>>> paper towel. I then vacuumed, even though the epa would rather you
>> not,
>>>>> since almost all the residue was gone and I knew there were shards
>> of glass
>>>>> in the carpet. I then threw the vacuum bag away (it needed it
>> anyway).
>>>>> Finally, I ran the whole house attic fan to ventilate the house
>> for 1/2
>>>>> hour. They recommend venting for several hours if practical. What
>> a pain.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are no really good alternatives. However, LED light bulbs
>> are
>>>>> starting to become affordable. I saw an ad from newegg that said
>> they have
>>>>> 30W equivalent bulbs in a 6 pack for about $ 5 ea. Also, I was
>> surprised
>>>>> to find that there are some interesting alternatives now appearing
>> at home
>>>>> depot and lowes. Home depot has two products from CREE. One is a
>> 40W
>>>>> equivalent bulb for $ 10 and a 60W equivalent for $ 15. I'm
>> waiting for
>>>>> affordable 100 W equivalents, but they're still about $ 45. So,
>> we're
>>>>> getting there. I moved to all CFL a couple of years ago. I'm not
>> quite
>>>>> ready to jump to LED yet, but maybe the prices will keep dropping.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you decide to buy some of these, there are at least three things
>> you
>>>>> need to consider other than cost. First is size. Some of these
>> are longer
>>>>> and / or wider than standard bulbs. Second, are they
>> omnidirectional and
>>>>> do they cast shadows? Some bulbs have part of the bulb structure
>> obscuring
>>>>> the bulb and would cast shadows in certain areas. Third, are they
>>>>> dimmable? Dimmability is a big advantage that incandescents have
>> that most
>>>>> fluorescents don't. Some of the new LED's are dimmable. But, look
>> at the
>>>>> specs. Some of them require new advanced dimmers. The CREE ones I
>>>>> mentioned, however, are dimmable with conventional old style
>> dimmers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, the manufacturers like to play games with longevity ratings.
>> One
>>>>> will say 10 years, another 20 years, etc. This is useless. You
>> have to
>>>>> find how many hours per day they're figuring. Usually, it's 3,
>> sometimes
>>>>> 6, etc. The Philips CFL's I just bought are rated at 11 years, at
>> 3 hr /
>>>>> day. (The bulbs in my living room and work area run much more than
>> 3 hr /
>>>>> day.) If you do the math, that works out to 12,000 hours. The
>> cheaper
>>>>> CFL's may be rated only for 8,000 or 10,000 hours. A LED should
>> last
>>>>> 20,000 hours or more. There are 8760 hours / year, so if you're
>> running a
>>>>> bulb 12 - 24 hours / day, expect lots fewer days out of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Home depot will recycle CFL's for you. Lowes might but I don't
>> know. I
>>>>> don't know of any easy way to recycle bigger circular or straight
>>>>> fluorescent tubes. I wish I did, as there are a few fixtures in my
>> house
>>>>> that use these.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone else had experience with the new LED bulbs?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and
>> K-9
>>>>> Mail.
>>>>> Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch
>> screen.
>>>>>
>>>>> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might
>> want to
>>>>> call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate
>> energy
>>>>> mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very
>>>>> quickly.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Ron Frazier
>>>>> 770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.
>>>>> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
>>>>> Litecoin: LZzAJu9rZEWzALxDhAHnWLRvybVAVgwTh3
>>>>> Bitcoin: 15s3aLVsxm8EuQvT8gUDw3RWqvuY9hPGUU
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jay Lozier
>>>> jslozier at gmail.com
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jay Lozier
>>> jslozier at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> James P. Kinney III
>> *
>> *Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you
>> gain
>> at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own
>> tail.
>> It won't fatten the dog.
>> - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain
>> *
>> http://electjimkinney.org
>> http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
>> *
>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
> --
>
> Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9
> Mail.
> Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch screen.
>
> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
> call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
> mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very
> quickly.)
>
> Ron Frazier
> 770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.
> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
> Litecoin: LZzAJu9rZEWzALxDhAHnWLRvybVAVgwTh3
> Bitcoin: 15s3aLVsxm8EuQvT8gUDw3RWqvuY9hPGUU
>
>
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--
Jay Lozier
jslozier at gmail.com
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