[ale] OT CFL cleanup / LED light bulbs starting to become affordable

Wed Jul 3 14:04:18 EDT 2013

I have a friend that worked for the the power company (Southern Co, Ga Power).  His department did research into electric vehicles.  Granted, the source is biased, but, he said that the emissions from a power plant due to powering a fleet of electric vehicles would be less than the same fleet of gas powered vehicles.  This is due to the scrubbing systems and economies of scale of the power plant, versus the lack therof on thousands of small engines.  I don't know if that's true or not, but it sounded good.

(Must do something today besides email, but these conversations are interesting.)

Ron

Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com> wrote:

>+2 on humor :-)
>
>EPA doesn't define jobs as "green" or any color. That's marketing
>speak!
>
>I agree on electric cars mostly. It exchanges mobile air pollution (and
>water from leaks) for stationary air pollution and battery waste. At
>least
>the batteries can be recycled back into more batteries.
>
>On the topic of electric cars:
>
>They should be REQUIRED to have a sound!!! I about was run over in a
>parking desk by a Prius! I propose that HannaBarberra provide the sound
>of
>George Jetson's flying car to all electric car makers as a gift so we
>can
>at least pretend the world has advanced and hear the cars approaching.
>
>
>On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Jay Lozier <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> **
>> +1 humor
>>
>> The EPA's definition of "green" jobs and mine are very different. I
>prefer
>> to focus on the entire process not just one aspect of the problem.
>Often
>> "green" iniatives just shuffle the type of pollution problem and
>pollution
>> sources around without really reducing the overall pollution.
>>
>> For a variety of reasons I view all-electric cars as environmental
>> pollution shuffling resulting no net gain. There may be a
>substitution of
>> some heavy metal pollution in lieu of carbon dioxide. This may not be
>a
>> wise trade-off. And the location of the carbon dioxide production has
>been
>> moved from the tail pipe to the power plant.
>>
>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:49:38 -0400, Richard Bronosky
><richard at bronosky.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> But CFLs create "green jobs"!
>> On Jul 3, 2013 12:43 PM, "Jay Lozier" <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In a previous job I got very familiar with the EPA rules which
>lowered my
>>> already low opinion of the EPA. One problem is that the disposal of
>the CFL
>>> bulbs should be at a hazardous waste facility certified to handle
>mercury
>>> not at a non-hazardous sanitary landfill. Technically you could be
>charged
>>> with a federal felony if you improperly dispose a hazardous waste -
>I am
>>> not sure if there are any minimum quantity.
>>>
>>> While incandescent bulbs used more energy they were non-hazardous
>waste
>>> when they burnt out.
>>>
>>> Also, CFL can aggravate certain medical problems which incandescent
>bulbs
>>> never did.
>>>
>>> Often overlooked is the manufacturing process for CFL and LED bulbs
>may
>>> be more damaging to the environment than for incandescent bulbs even
>with
>>> the higher energy consumption.
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 12:16:18 -0400, Ron Frazier (ALE) <
>>> atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Just wanted to drop a note about some LED light bulbs I've seen
>>>> recently.  As you may know, the manufacture of incandescent light
>bulbs is
>>>> being phased out.  The best current alternative is the compact
>fluorescent
>>>> (CFL).  These work well, and use about 1/4 the energy of an
>incandescent.
>>>>  The problem is that they have toxic mercury.  If you break one,
>you have
>>>> to take special steps to avoid exposure to mercury or mercury
>vapor.
>>>>
>>>> You can find info here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www2.epa.gov/cfl
>>>>
>>>> I had the (not) fun of experiencing the cleanup procedure the other
>day.
>>>>  I dropped one of these and it shattered.  I put on vinyl gloves
>and
>>>> removed every fragment I could find.  I then wiped the carpet with
>a damp
>>>> paper towel.  I then vacuumed, even though the epa would rather you
>not,
>>>> since almost all the residue was gone and I knew there were shards
>of glass
>>>> in the carpet.  I then threw the vacuum bag away (it needed it
>anyway).
>>>>  Finally, I ran the whole house attic fan to ventilate the house
>for 1/2
>>>> hour.  They recommend venting for several hours if practical.  What
>a pain.
>>>>
>>>> There are no really good alternatives.  However, LED light bulbs
>are
>>>> starting to become affordable.  I saw an ad from newegg that said
>they have
>>>> 30W equivalent bulbs in a 6 pack for about $ 5 ea.  Also, I was
>surprised
>>>> to find that there are some interesting alternatives now appearing
>at home
>>>> depot and lowes.  Home depot has two products from CREE.  One is a
>40W
>>>> equivalent bulb for $ 10 and a 60W equivalent for $ 15.  I'm
>waiting for
>>>> affordable 100 W equivalents, but they're still about $ 45.  So,
>we're
>>>> getting there.  I moved to all CFL a couple of years ago.  I'm not
>quite
>>>> ready to jump to LED yet, but maybe the prices will keep dropping.
>>>>
>>>> If you decide to buy some of these, there are at least three things
>you
>>>> need to consider other than cost.  First is size.  Some of these
>are longer
>>>> and / or wider than standard bulbs.  Second, are they
>omnidirectional and
>>>> do they cast shadows?  Some bulbs have part of the bulb structure
>obscuring
>>>> the bulb and would cast shadows in certain areas.  Third, are they
>>>> dimmable?  Dimmability is a big advantage that incandescents have
>that most
>>>> fluorescents don't.  Some of the new LED's are dimmable.  But, look
>at the
>>>> specs.  Some of them require new advanced dimmers.  The CREE ones I
>>>> mentioned, however, are dimmable with conventional old style
>dimmers.
>>>>
>>>> Also, the manufacturers like to play games with longevity ratings. 
>One
>>>> will say 10 years, another 20 years, etc.  This is useless.  You
>have to
>>>> find how many hours per day they're figuring.  Usually, it's 3,
>sometimes
>>>> 6, etc.  The Philips CFL's I just bought are rated at 11 years, at
>3 hr /
>>>> day.  (The bulbs in my living room and work area run much more than
>3 hr /
>>>> day.)  If you do the math, that works out to 12,000 hours.  The
>cheaper
>>>> CFL's may be rated only for 8,000 or 10,000 hours.  A LED should
>last
>>>> 20,000 hours or more.  There are 8760 hours / year, so if you're
>running a
>>>> bulb 12 - 24 hours / day, expect lots fewer days out of it.
>>>>
>>>> Home depot will recycle CFL's for you.  Lowes might but I don't
>know.  I
>>>> don't know of any easy way to recycle bigger circular or straight
>>>> fluorescent tubes.  I wish I did, as there are a few fixtures in my
>house
>>>> that use these.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone else had experience with the new LED bulbs?
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and
>K-9
>>>> Mail.
>>>> Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch
>screen.
>>>>
>>>> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might
>want to
>>>> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate
>energy
>>>> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages very
>>>> quickly.)
>>>>
>>>> Ron Frazier
>>>> 770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
>>>> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
>>>> Litecoin: LZzAJu9rZEWzALxDhAHnWLRvybVAVgwTh3
>>>> Bitcoin: 15s3aLVsxm8EuQvT8gUDw3RWqvuY9hPGUU
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jay Lozier
>>> jslozier at gmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ale mailing list
>>> Ale at ale.org
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jay Lozier
>> jslozier at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>>
>
>
>-- 
>-- 
>James P. Kinney III
>*
>*Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you
>gain
>at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own
>tail.
>It won't fatten the dog.
>- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain
>*
>http://electjimkinney.org
>http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
>*
>
>
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>
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--

Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and K-9 Mail.
Please excuse my potential brevity if I'm typing on the touch screen.

(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new email messages very quickly.)

Ron Frazier
770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
linuxdude AT techstarship.com
Litecoin: LZzAJu9rZEWzALxDhAHnWLRvybVAVgwTh3
Bitcoin: 15s3aLVsxm8EuQvT8gUDw3RWqvuY9hPGUU