[ale] Cory Doctorow, right again

[James Sumners]

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 23:19, Michael H. Warfield <mhw at wittsend.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 2012-03-16 at 17:48 -0400, James Sumners wrote:
>> I said "yourself" for a reason. I am well aware of the benefits of
>> many people reading the code. I'm not a member of this list because I
>> hate Linux.
>
> That much is obvious.  It shows.

I don't know if we are saying the same thing here. I can't figure out
your intended tone.

>> But whe the thread is started off with the statement that the platform
>> is inherently bad because _you_ don't control it, that leads to the
>> assertion that _you_ should be vetting all the code run on it.
*snip*
> Even if it isn't.  If it's on the net, you can still be had.  There have
> already been two SMS exploits out here that only fortuitously did not
> get exploited and turned into worms in those Apples.  :-)  You will not
> always be so lucky.

I don't have an SMS plan :P

Seriously. I have it totally disabled. If someone wants to send me one
of those then they can use my Google Voice number. I'm not a big SMS
person.

As an aside, going back to my (sort of) tongue-in-cheek suggestion
that webapps could be used instead, the Google Voice app for iOS is
really just a webapp in a "native" wrapper. So I do use a webapp for
SMS.

>> My argument is simple: the claim that one platform is better simply
>> because you "control" and some people download bad software is silly.
>> The platform "you control" has seen many more instances of malware,
>> and completely bogus, stolen, applications that the one that you don't
>> control. Does that make it an inherently bad platform? No. You have to
>> use your good judgement just like with every other platform on which
>> you can install software on your own.
>
> Again...  You have demonstrated no advantage to NOT having this control
> and some of us have demonstrated where there is an advantage TOO having
> this control.  So...  What have you got to offer?  What advantage is
> there to giving up this control and being oblivious to what's under the
> hood and trusting implicitly in the benevolence of the vendor?  For a
> person who is not interested, too lazy, or able to look deeper, it's
> probably a wash.  No advantage on either side.  But I see no
> circumstance where there's an advantage on that side and we have
> circumstances where there is a clear advantage on the OpenSource side.
> Where is your balance?  Where is your advantage to outweigh the
> advantage that many of us CAN take advantage of.  For those who can't,
> who cares?  Enjoy your little walled garden and quit crying to us if we
> have toys you can't have and can maintain our devices more securely.
> Just don't try to tell us there is no difference for those of us who
> can.

Because I wasn't trying to have such a conversation. I found the
statement "The User of a Device should have Control over the Software
Running on
that Device." to be untrue in regard to iOS devices, so I replied as
such. No, you don't have the same kind of control as you do on other
platforms (personal computers included), but you do have control. That
is all I had intention to say. I never even hinted that iOS is more or
less secure than Android or any other phone/tablet OS. I also never
said one form of control is better than the other.

When I wrote "The argument that open source is safer because you,
yourself, can look at the code before installing it is ludicrous. If
you have the time to do that for _every_ piece of software you
install, then you must not be doing anything else," I was specifically
responding to Mike's comment:

"And what if you install a highly-rated, seemingly legitimate app that
does things that you aren't aware of because you have no way to possibly
be aware of them?

There are security concerns with any application software on any
platform or device that are a mile long and simply cannot be addressed
by the average user.  These problems will likely never go away, unless
the entire world moves to a model where the source code for all software
becomes generally available."

This suggests that any software you want to install on your phone
should have the source code made available to you so that you can vet
it, personally, for malicious code. Mike responded with his thoughts
on my reply, I read it, and decided to leave it at that. But you want
an advantage to the iOS model...

Okay. I'll just tell you why I use an iPhone. Several years ago (just
before OS 10.4), I needed to purchase a laptop for school because I
didn't want to use my work supplied laptop for school (they were
separate things). At the time, I was running Debian Sid as my desktop
OS on all of my computers; that included my laptop. It had been this
way for several years. Thus, I was well aware of the work that comes
with maintaining a Linux desktop on a portable computer (probably not
nearly as much anymore, but still not exactly easy). I did not have
time to mess with that. I needed something that would work when I
needed it to work. For example, if I needed to give a presentation for
class, I didn't want to get up there and fight with X and the
projector; I just wanted to be able to plug up and get going.

I knew that I _did not_ want to use Windows. It is too limiting and
impacts my workflow. I had not previously been impressed with OS 10,
having messed with it very little in incarnations 10.1 and 10.2, but I
knew that under the clicky buttons and menus there lay a proper OS. So
I took a plunge and bought a PowerBook Pro, knowing that it would have
resell value if I wasn't happy. But, as I think you can guess, I did
find OS 10 to my liking after all. There was a cohesive GUI for
everyday tasks (something that Linux still doesn't really offer), but
there was also that proper OS I mentioned, and a passable
implementation of X for the few things for which I required it.

So I started using OS 10 for my primary desktop OS and Linux in other
situations (servers, my HTPC, my job, etc.). Thus, when it came time
for me to break down and get a cell phone, I opted to get an iPhone
because I knew it would integrate with my primary OS with minimal
trouble. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that opting for an
Android phone (which didn't even exist then) would set me back to
dealing more with configuration and maintenance than actually using my
device. And that's the advantage for me -- I can spend my time using
my device instead of feeling like I have to keep it maintained. I have
plenty else to do.

No, I don't like the closed nature of iOS. It upsets me that I can't
write an application on my computer and then put it on my _own phone_
to test it on an actual device without first acquiring a developer
license. It doesn't make any sense, and is what, if I'm not mistaken,
kept developers away from the Macintosh platform prior to OS 10. Apple
did the right thing in keeping the development tools open for OS 10,
but went way backwards with iOS. But that also isn't likely to change,
given the adoption of the bullshit.

So, again, I was never trying to argue that closed source is more
secure. Or that one platform is better than another. Or whatever
you've been reading into my replies. I never "cried" or suggested you
"have toys [I] can't have."

-- 
James Sumners
http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts
pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it
is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become
drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59