[ale] flip flopping on programming, now interested in c++
Charles Shapiro
hooterpincher at gmail.com
Sun Jul 1 17:41:47 EDT 2012
Grin. Not me. I actually was pretty impressed with that, since I
fall into the 'Thinks he Knows C++' camp.
-- CHS
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 3:11 PM, Ed Cashin <ecashin at noserose.net> wrote:
> Gee. I hope nobody thinks I meant that knowing C++ function adapters will
> get you a job.
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Charles Shapiro <hooterpincher at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> +1 for Byron. I started coding in C on MS-DOS in 1982 or so, but I've
>> lost count of the languages I've used since then on paid projects and
>> ones for my own amusement. Some languages have been more fun than
>> others, but I've found that focusing on the problem you want to solve
>> is more productive than worrying about your tools.
>>
>> Real-world projects and books like Kernighan & Pike's
>> _The_Practice_of_Programming_ are far more useful than classes in
>> specific technologies for starting out. You can always pick up
>> another language as needed.
>>
>> Getting work involves slipping past the HR department, not your
>> specific technical skills. The biggest challenge in most shops is
>> navigating the local culture and coding practice; experience with
>> actual projects will help you there. So, for example, knowing the ins
>> and outs of SubVersion and Git will help a lot more in a real-world
>> environment than detailed knowledge of C++ function adapters.
>>
>> -- CHS
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:20 AM, Byron Jeff <byronjeff at mail.clayton.edu>
>> wrote:
>> > Ron,
>> >
>> > I going to be blunt: you are overthinking this. First off programming is
>> > like riding a bike: once you learn how to do it, it is difficult to
>> > unlearn. The second thing is that programming languages are like flavors
>> > of
>> > ice cream: while they all taste a bit different, in the end it's still
>> > ice
>> > cream. Third is that unfortunately when it comes to the programming job
>> > market, HR folks really are clueless. You can guess how many job ads out
>> > there ask for 10+ years of Android programming experience when (DUH!)
>> > the
>> > platform isn't been around for that long.
>> >
>> > At then end of the day being a programmer only comes down to two or
>> > three
>> > core skills:
>> >
>> > 1. Do you know how to solve problems.
>> > 2. Can you describe in a programming language (non specific) how to tell
>> > a
>> > computer to solve that same problem.
>> > 3. When given a program and a specified system, can you make an
>> > appropriate
>> > choice of tool to solve the problem.
>> >
>> > The third one is the difficult one, because folks often make up their
>> > mind
>> > what the tool is going to be before they even make an attempt to solve
>> > the
>> > problem. One of my colleagues call it "love what you learn" syndrome.
>> > When
>> > one learns to use a hammer, everything looks like a nail. But a good
>> > craftsman knows there's a better tool when you are dealing with a screw.
>> >
>> > As you can see from the signature below, I'm firmly implanted in the
>> > formal
>> > educational system you ascribe to participate in for this process. Trust
>> > me, from you description below, doing that will most likely frustrate
>> > you
>> > because you'll be in a classroom full of students who don't have the
>> > slightest idea of what they are doing. Since that class will be starting
>> > at
>> > ground zero, the projects will be small and simplistic. As you've
>> > already
>> > figured out, all the resources you need to support what you want to do
>> > are
>> > already available to you online.
>> >
>> > So let me give you some homework, then you tell me what you think when
>> > you
>> > get it done. Pick three projects that you would personally like to have.
>> > Three projects that would be useful for you. Write them. Use a different
>> > programming language and development environment for each. Trust me,
>> > when
>> > you are done, you will have relearned programming, and understand what
>> > choices of tools must be made to accomplish the task. And you'll have a
>> > portfolio of projects that you can passionately describe to anyone who
>> > wants to know about your experience.
>> >
>> > Don't overthink it. If you want to be a programmer, then go program...
>> >
>> > BAJ
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 05:55:16PM -0400, Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >> Some of you that have read my posts in the past probably know that
>> >> I've been
>> >> threatening to relearn programming after being out of it for many
>> >> years.
>> >> I've also been waffling on the language of choice. I was really
>> >> close to
>> >> carrying out my threat to learn something, and was about to focus on
>> >> Java,
>> >> and even register for some classes. I realized a few things that
>> >> prompted me
>> >> to shift again.
>> >> The two primary things I like about Java are the fact that it's what
>> >> is used
>> >> to program Android, although it may be somewhat nonstandard, and
>> >> that it has
>> >> built in memory management. The main things I don't like about it
>> >> are the
>> >> requirement to use the Java interpreter (JVM) and the difficulty (if
>> >> it's
>> >> even possible) of creating an executable file.
>> >> I began to realize that the use cases for Java, are something I
>> >> don't want
>> >> to make my career on. I've observed three main uses.
>> >> A) Website design and programming. As a programmer, I would have to
>> >> worry
>> >> about compatibility with 4-8 major browsers and probably 4-8 old
>> >> versions of
>> >> each. Combine that with security risks like SQL injection, and
>> >> people like
>> >> me who don't allow scripting on their browsers at all for sites
>> >> not
>> >> specifically trusted, and I realized that I don't want to be dealing
>> >> with
>> >> this hassle.
>> >> B) In the past, a popular use for Java was desktop applications,
>> >> downloaded
>> >> and not driven from a website. I think this is greatly diminishing,
>> >> as many
>> >> people such as myself, are considering uninstalling Java altogether
>> >> because
>> >> of security risks. Career wise, I don't think this has great
>> >> promise.
>> >> C) The third use for Java is Android programming. This, I would
>> >> potentially
>> >> be interested in. However, I don't know how much of a profitable
>> >> career path
>> >> that would be.
>> >> I'm shifting my focus back to C++. Based on my reading, I don't like
>> >> some of
>> >> the features of C++. In particular, I don't like the numerous
>> >> documented
>> >> bear traps that the programmer can fall into regarding pointers and
>> >> memory
>> >> management. However, I do like the types of things that C++ is being
>> >> used
>> >> for. Almost all these are something I would be interested in doing.
>> >> I really
>> >> want to be able to program machines, like robots, solar energy
>> >> control
>> >> systems, industrial controls, building automation, etc. Things like
>> >> game
>> >> programming could also be appealing.
>> >> So, when it actually comes down to paying for education and taking
>> >> classes,
>> >> I think I'll be taking some C++ classes next year after getting
>> >> a
>> >> prerequisite course out of the way. I'm wondering if anyone can
>> >> recommend
>> >> other resources that would help me. I'm thinking I'll use the G++
>> >> compiler.
>> >> I think it runs either in Linux or Windows but I would have to
>> >> confirm that.
>> >> I'll probably use GVim for my initial editor. I'm looking for a
>> >> middle of
>> >> the road IDE, similar to what NetBeans would do for Java. I've
>> >> pretty much
>> >> concluded that Eclipse is too complicated for me to try to be
>> >> learning at
>> >> the same time I'm learning the programming language. If anyone has
>> >> any
>> >> suggestions for resources, IDE's, user groups, online groups, etc.,
>> >> I'd
>> >> appreciate knowing about them. I always prefer things that can run
>> >> on either
>> >> Linux or Windows (up to Win7). I doubt I'll ever own a Mac, unless I
>> >> have
>> >> money to burn and need it for some reason, and I doubt I'll be
>> >> upgrading to
>> >> Windows 8 and the "Metro" interface.
>> >> I've already picked up the book Sams Teach Yourself C++ in 1 Hour
>> >> per Day,
>> >> and plan to be working through that prior to getting into the
>> >> formal
>> >> classroom. I'd prefer any resources I use to be compatible with the
>> >> C++11
>> >> standard that was approved last year.
>> >> Thanks in advance for any assistance.
>> >> Sincerely,
>> >> Ron
>> >> --
>> >> Sent from my Android Acer A500 tablet with bluetooth keyboard and
>> >> K-9 Mail.
>> >> Please excuse my potential brevity.
>> >> (To whom it may concern. My email address has changed. Replying to
>> >> former
>> >> messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the
>> >> wrong
>> >> address. Please send all personal correspondence to the new
>> >> address.)
>> >> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want
>> >> to
>> >> call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate
>> >> energy
>> >> mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very
>> >> quickly.)
>> >> Ron Frazier
>> >> 770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.
>> >> linuxdude AT [1]techstarship.com
>> >>
>> >> References
>> >>
>> >> 1. http://techstarship.com/
>> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> Ale at ale.org
>> >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
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>> >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Byron A. Jeff
>> > Department Chair: IT/CS/CNET
>> > College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
>> > Clayton State University
>> > http://cims.clayton.edu/bjeff
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>
>
>
> --
> Ed Cashin <ecashin at noserose.net>
> http://noserose.net/e/
> http://www.coraid.com/
>
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