[ale] I've decided again to learn programming again

Fri Oct 14 22:52:54 EDT 2011

On 10/14/2011 07:33 PM, planas wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-10-14 at 14:16 -0400, Scott Castaline wrote:
>> On 10/14/2011 10:59 AM, Byron Jeff wrote:
>> >  On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 06:42:11AM -0400, Ron Frazier wrote:
>> >>  Hello all,
>> >>
>> >>  Those of you that have read some of my prior posts know I've been
>> >>  threatening for some time to relearn programming after 16 years out of
>> >>  the loop.  I discussed it here before, and we had discussions about the
>> >>  various merits, or unmerits of different languages.  I really was
>> >>  planning to learn C++, after you guys convinced me to not target C#.  I
>> >>  have, sitting next to me, some of the best C++ textbooks out there,
>> >>  including one by the inventor of C++.  The problem is, no disrespect to
>> >>  the authors, that these things are BORING, and intimidating.  I mean, I
>> >>  have to go through 400 pages of for next loops, if then's, and variable
>> >>  setting, etc. to even get to putting a GUI hello world program on the
>> >>  screen.  And, that's IF they even discuss GUI programming.  Now, I know
>> >>  you have to learn the basics, and I know these things are foundational,
>> >>  but I think this is the least enticing way to teach it.
>> >  The real problem is that there is a functional disconnect between
>> >  foundational programming concepts and GUI programming. GUIs are event
>> >  driven creatures that rarely have a linear flow. We run into this problem
>> >  all the time teaching introductory programming and invariably end up right
>> >  back at linear console programming to teach basic concepts. It's difficult
>> >  to branch out to non-linear event driven programming without a clear
>> >  understanding of basic programming concents.
>> That was my problem in the late 80's early 90's ( I maybe off a couple
>> of years), I was making an attempt to "relearn programming". Prior to
>> that I had done school projects in the mid to late 70's Cobol, and
>> Assembler (6800, Harris, and there was another machine in there
>> somewhere). My attempts to relearn hit a major roadblock when I tried
>> "Event Driven Code", to me it was another term for Spaghetti Code. My
>> gray matter turned into something worse than Spaghetti Junction and I
>> gave up.
> The little event driven code I have written was not messy when I kept 
> the GUI's well organized and relatively clean. One the problems I 
> noticed was a lack of good information about what makes a good GUI and 
> how the various parts should interface with each other.
>
> Also, do the tools allow you to design the GUI visually then write the 
> code. I found this worked well for me and I have not written any code.
Back then I don't remember being able to do it that way. I believe that 
current tools do such as in LO Base. I had in the recent past poked 
around in that out of curiosity. It allowed you to "draw your form" 
placing objects using drag & drop onto the form and then you could write 
code for the form and the objects on it. Prior to my disastrous 
misadventure with Event Driven I had put together a DB based on FoxBASE+ 
and code for the front end which was Menu Driven.
>
>> >>    Not only that,
>> >>  programming desktop computers doesn't excite me nearly as much now as it
>> >>  did a decade and a half ago when it was relatively new.  Embedded
>> >>  programming interests me to a point, and I could do that in C++
>> >>  sometimes, but I don't necessarily want to be programming thermostats
>> >>  and microwave ovens either.  Robotics interests me, but it can be very
>> >>  difficult and expensive to develop your own robotics lab.
>> >>
>> >>  The other thing that interests me that I might be able to start
>> >>  development for on my own, is mobile computing, specifically Android.  I
>> >>  recently heard that Android is the most popular smart phone OS on the
>> >>  planet.  And, it's pretty much the only game in town for non IOS
>> >>  tablets.  The thing is, you program Android in Java.  So, I have to
>> >>  choose between Java and C++ since I cannot really learn two languages at
>> >>  once.  So, I've decided to jump over to Java, before investing lots of
>> >>  time in C++, which I may come back to later.  By the way, my
>> >>  introductory Java and Android books are just as boring as the C++ books,
>> >>  but I guess I'll muddle through.
>> >>
>> >>  So, having said all that, do you guys have any thoughts on setting up a
>> >>  cross platform Java development environment, learning Java, learning
>> >>  Android, etc.  I'm thinking using the Sun / Oracle JDK on both Windows
>> >>  and Linux, plus the Eclipse IDE, and whatever device emulators the
>> >>  Android books recommend.  When I can, I'll get an Android tablet to try
>> >>  things out on.  I have two good books on Android 2 from Apress.  They've
>> >>  now come out with similar books on Android 3.  All of them say to learn
>> >>  Java first though.  I think there will be a lot of Android 2 out there
>> >>  for a while, so it might be fine to start with the books I have.  Any
>> >>  thoughts and advice are appreciated.
>> >>
>> >>  Maybe, someday 8-( I'll see a GUI hello world that I created on a tablet
>> >>  device.  The very large learning curve for this is intimidating and
>> >>  frustrating.
>> >>
>> >>  Sincerely,
>> >>
>> >>  Ron
>> >>
>> >>  -- 
>> >>
>> >>  (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
>> >>  call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
>> >>  mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new messages very quickly.)
>> >  I have to run. I'll come back to the rest of this thread a bit later.
>> >
>> >  BAJ
>> >
>> >>  Ron Frazier
>> >>
>> >>  770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
>> >>  linuxdude AT c3energy.com
>> >>
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>
> -- 
> Jay Lozier
> jslozier at gmail.com
>
>
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