[ale] Ale Digest, Vol 34, Issue 51

Thu Nov 11 12:50:03 EST 2010

Aaron, chill. Posting on the ale-jobs boards about that was in
appropriate. How many companies may be on that list?

On 11/11/10, ale-request at ale.org <ale-request at ale.org> wrote:
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Elliott Street Pub Iron Pour this Friday 22:00
>       (Charles Shapiro)
>    2. Re: [ALE-jobs] Opportunity for Windows Admin in PA/TN
>       (Brian Pitts)
>    3. Re: [ALE-jobs] Opportunity for Windows Admin in PA/TN (arxaaron)
>    4. Re: [ALE-jobs] Opportunity for Windows Admin in PA/TN
>       (Charles Shapiro)
>    5. Re: [ALE-jobs] Opportunity for Windows Admin in PA/TN (Jim Kinney)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 09:40:39 -0500
> From: Charles Shapiro <hooterpincher at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] Elliott Street Pub Iron Pour this Friday 22:00
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<AANLkTi=ChfpM-XxsjLGjOftbxtXsyBpU2etLknvixFBm at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> If you don't know me by sight, I'll be the guy with the bright yellow
> juggling club(s).
>
> -- CHS
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:00 AM, BBBB <brad.list at thingbuilder.com> wrote:
>> On 11/10/10 10:16 AM, Charles Shapiro wrote:
>>> This Friday at 10 pm the Elliott Street Pub (
>>> http://www.elliottstreet.com/ ) is having their monthly Iron Pour.....
>>
>> Thanks for posting this. I plan to attend.
>>
>> Bradley
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:02:23 -0500
> From: Brian Pitts <brian at polibyte.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] [ALE-jobs] Opportunity for Windows Admin in PA/TN
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Message-ID: <4CDC138F.3030700 at polibyte.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 11/11/2010 07:40 AM, Jim Kinney wrote:
>> I stand by my decision to approve a job posting that had no specific
>> Linux/FLOSS context except for one: the access to an opportunity to
>> introduce the employer to our world.
>
> I'm really confused- does this mean you're now going to forward any IT
> job posting sent to you to ALE-jobs?
>
> I thought the point of this last was for list members or community-savvy
> recruiters to advertise local linux jobs. Instead, you want to use it
> for rebroadcasting messages from recruiters who are too clueless to
> comprehend your resume?
>
> As others have said, there are dozens of job websites with hundreds if
> not thousands of IT jobs posted every day. Could we keep this list special?
>
> --
> All the best,
> Brian Pitts
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:05:30 -0500
> From: arxaaron <arxaaron at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] [ALE-jobs] Opportunity for Windows Admin in PA/TN
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Message-ID: <F7923289-C011-4EF4-B9B5-F2EDAF8B4331 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Looking back to when Jim took the initiative to start the
> jobs list and took on the task of moderating it,  he did
> state his intent to post opportunities in the IT/Tech
> sector even when Linux / Unix / FLOSS were not
> integral parts of the job descriptions. Some discussion
> along the lines of the current debate followed, but
> there was no commitment to filter out "off topic" posts.
>
> Though I stand by my convictions that posts to our jobs
> list from outside companies, most especially recruiters,
> should be limited to items with Linux & FLOSS relevance,
> the ALE membership seems split on the issue.
>
> In the end it's the call of whoever has taken on the
> volunteer task of moderating the list. The current
> moderator a fair minded but avid FLOSS evangelist,
> so I doubt the ALE-jobs list will become a wasteland
> dumping ground for windisease recruiters.  Hopefully
> this ALE offering will remain a high gravity brew with
> a distinctive character.
>
> peace
> aaron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2010/11/11, at 07:40 , Jim Kinney wrote:
>> I stand by my decision to approve a job posting that had no
>>
>> specific Linux/FLOSS context except for one: the access to
>>
>> an opportunity to introduce the employer to our world.
>>
>> In order to expand the coverage of Linux, we have to have
>>
>> access to do so.  Standing outside the parking lot gate won't
>>
>> get it done. Standing inside the data center will.
>>
>> Besides it's loads of fun to replace a stack of windows machines
>>
>> with a pair of redundant Linux servers. It's hard to do that in an
>>
>> all Linux shop.
>>
>> Preaching to the choir is a waste of time when the game
>>
>> is to claim converts.
>>
>
>
>
>> On Nov 10, 2010 11:53 PM, "arxaaron" <arxaaron at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > On 2010/11/10, at 22:10 , Mike Harrison wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Sparr wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Mike Harrison
>> <cluon at geeklabs.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>> Would you rather give one of "us" Linux/FOSS aware
>> >>>> people a chance at a paying job....
>> >>>> or one of "them" M$-centric fanbois?
>> >>>
>> >>> By that logic, *any* job posting is relevant to this board, almost
>> >>> all
>> >>> of them more so than a MS job posting.
>> >>
>> >> I just hired a kid who's been working the Deli counter at Wal-
>> Mart..
>> >> Still
>> >> is on weekends. But he can use vi, diff, and write some basic code.
>> >> He's
>> >> learning quickly. While I'm not so sure the Wal-Mart deli job
>> >> posting is
>> >> apropos to an ALE-Jobs or other technology list, I'm glad he had
>> the
>> >> job
>> >> until he found employment as a Linux sysadmin.
>> >>
>> >> In 2004 I made more money as a welder than a Linux geek.
>> >> Still have a dead spot in my right eye from it ("instant" on
>> welding
>> >> mask
>> >> failed) The message I got that work from a posting to a Linux
>> list and
>> >> kept me fed for 6 months. (I made special brackets for antenna
>> >> mounts).
>> >>
>> >> In 2005, I took a job that includes babysitting 14 2000/2003
>> windows
>> >> iMail
>> >> and IIS servers. I converted most of them to a single Linux
>> server. I
>> >> could not have done that if I had not taken the job.
>> >>
>> >> It is far easier to convert the unwashed ignaorant masses from
>> within
>> >> the castle walls, than from across the moat.
>> >
>> > The point in this is not a question of whether working
>> > in odd jobs, tech oriented or otherwise, MafiaSoft centric
>> > or not, is better for someone than not working at all.
>> >
>> > The question is whether postings for those odd jobs
>> > are appropriate to the ALE-jobs list, and the answer is
>> > that they aren't. A posting for a welding gig or a babysitting
>> > job or a windisease-only admin position are all equally
>> > inappropriate to the context of the ALE-jobs list.
>> >
>> > If someone wants to (or is willing to) be a welder or a
>> > babysitter or an accomplice to convicted corporate
>> > criminals to pay the bills, there are many resources
>> > available for finding work in those arenas. There is
>> > no reason or justification for ALE to dilute its services
>> > by trying to be a redundant echo of those resources.
>> >
>> > The point and purpose of the ALE-jobs list is to be a
>> > clear resource for finding employment and employees
>> > in arenas relating to some level of Linux, Unix, or
>> > FLOSS administration or development. If the job
>> > description doesn't include _something_ relating
>> > to those, then it is clearly and simply inappropriate
>> > and needs to be directed elsewhere. Otherwise we
>> > might as well label it the ALE-craigslist and start
>> > posting service offers from prostitutes and
>> > employment offers from pimps because the list
>> > will have no differentiating or specific purpose
>> > at that point.
>> >
>> > peace
>> > aaron
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Ale mailing list
>> > Ale at ale.org
>> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:35:11 -0500
> From: Charles Shapiro <hooterpincher at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] [ALE-jobs] Opportunity for Windows Admin in PA/TN
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<AANLkTi=Riej2K0rBA5=yZw8eKwEZEHu3EsBd7PVX3yF=@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Well put as always, Mr. Ruscetta.
>
> -- CHS
>
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:05 AM, arxaaron <arxaaron at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Looking back to when Jim took the initiative to start the
>> jobs list and took on the task of moderating it, ?he did
>> state his intent to post opportunities in the IT/Tech
>> sector even when Linux / Unix / FLOSS were not
>> integral parts of the job descriptions. Some discussion
>> along the lines of the current debate followed, but
>> there was no commitment to filter out "off topic" posts.
>>
>> Though I stand by my convictions that posts to our jobs
>> list from outside companies, most especially recruiters,
>> should be limited to items with Linux & FLOSS relevance,
>> the ALE membership seems split on the issue.
>>
>> In the end it's the call of whoever has taken on the
>> volunteer task of moderating the list. The current
>> moderator a fair minded but avid FLOSS evangelist,
>> so I doubt the ALE-jobs list will become a wasteland
>> dumping ground for windisease recruiters. ?Hopefully
>> this ALE offering will remain a high gravity brew with
>> a distinctive character.
>>
>> peace
>> aaron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2010/11/11, at 07:40 , Jim Kinney wrote:
>>> I stand by my decision to approve a job posting that had no
>>>
>>> specific Linux/FLOSS context except for one: the access to
>>>
>>> an opportunity to introduce the employer to our world.
>>>
>>> In order to expand the coverage of Linux, we have to have
>>>
>>> access to do so. ?Standing outside the parking lot gate won't
>>>
>>> get it done. Standing inside the data center will.
>>>
>>> Besides it's loads of fun to replace a stack of windows machines
>>>
>>> with a pair of redundant Linux servers. It's hard to do that in an
>>>
>>> all Linux shop.
>>>
>>> Preaching to the choir is a waste of time when the game
>>>
>>> is to claim converts.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 10, 2010 11:53 PM, "arxaaron" <arxaaron at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On 2010/11/10, at 22:10 , Mike Harrison wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Sparr wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Mike Harrison
>>> <cluon at geeklabs.com>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>> Would you rather give one of "us" Linux/FOSS aware
>>> >>>> people a chance at a paying job....
>>> >>>> or one of "them" M$-centric fanbois?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> By that logic, *any* job posting is relevant to this board, almost
>>> >>> all
>>> >>> of them more so than a MS job posting.
>>> >>
>>> >> I just hired a kid who's been working the Deli counter at Wal-
>>> Mart..
>>> >> Still
>>> >> is on weekends. But he can use vi, diff, and write some basic code.
>>> >> He's
>>> >> learning quickly. While I'm not so sure the Wal-Mart deli job
>>> >> posting is
>>> >> apropos to an ALE-Jobs or other technology list, I'm glad he had
>>> the
>>> >> job
>>> >> until he found employment as a Linux sysadmin.
>>> >>
>>> >> In 2004 I made more money as a welder than a Linux geek.
>>> >> Still have a dead spot in my right eye from it ("instant" on
>>> welding
>>> >> mask
>>> >> failed) The message I got that work from a posting to a Linux
>>> list and
>>> >> kept me fed for 6 months. (I made special brackets for antenna
>>> >> mounts).
>>> >>
>>> >> In 2005, I took a job that includes babysitting 14 2000/2003
>>> windows
>>> >> iMail
>>> >> and IIS servers. I converted most of them to a single Linux
>>> server. I
>>> >> could not have done that if I had not taken the job.
>>> >>
>>> >> It is far easier to convert the unwashed ignaorant masses from
>>> within
>>> >> the castle walls, than from across the moat.
>>> >
>>> > The point in this is not a question of whether working
>>> > in odd jobs, tech oriented or otherwise, MafiaSoft centric
>>> > or not, is better for someone than not working at all.
>>> >
>>> > The question is whether postings for those odd jobs
>>> > are appropriate to the ALE-jobs list, and the answer is
>>> > that they aren't. A posting for a welding gig or a babysitting
>>> > job or a windisease-only admin position are all equally
>>> > inappropriate to the context of the ALE-jobs list.
>>> >
>>> > If someone wants to (or is willing to) be a welder or a
>>> > babysitter or an accomplice to convicted corporate
>>> > criminals to pay the bills, there are many resources
>>> > available for finding work in those arenas. There is
>>> > no reason or justification for ALE to dilute its services
>>> > by trying to be a redundant echo of those resources.
>>> >
>>> > The point and purpose of the ALE-jobs list is to be a
>>> > clear resource for finding employment and employees
>>> > in arenas relating to some level of Linux, Unix, or
>>> > FLOSS administration or development. If the job
>>> > description doesn't include _something_ relating
>>> > to those, then it is clearly and simply inappropriate
>>> > and needs to be directed elsewhere. Otherwise we
>>> > might as well label it the ALE-craigslist and start
>>> > posting service offers from prostitutes and
>>> > employment offers from pimps because the list
>>> > will have no differentiating or specific purpose
>>> > at that point.
>>> >
>>> > peace
>>> > aaron
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Ale mailing list
>>> > Ale at ale.org
>>> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>>> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ale mailing list
>>> Ale at ale.org
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2010 11:51:30 -0500
> From: Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] [ALE-jobs] Opportunity for Windows Admin in PA/TN
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<AANLkTi=Hz2M9mYwUypeEhR3wbEvRv+wx-JOqBbvGL6z6 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> My intent is to forward jobs that are sent to me directly as long as they
> are for IT positions. Any recruiter who see's my resume on monster or
> somewhere else will see my experience is overwhelmingly Linux and
> particularly Linux to replace windows. A recruiter who sends a job posting
> to the ale-jobs list directly that has no Linux/FLOSS impact may be approved
> depending on my mood for the day and how much crap Aaron has given me for
> the last posting :-) . The moderation fo the list is intended to be strictly
> to only have job postings and not the normal banter traffic of ALE or
> robotic spam mails for various enhancements.
>
> When recruiters send a windows only job, I do inform them the list has a
> supply of Linux capable talent and to post those notices there in
> particular. Sometimes, depending on my mood and Aaron's ranting, I may be
> quite snarky in my response.
>
> Right now, I will post pretty much any job in IT that rolls across the desk.
> If a welder uses a computer, that's another system that could be reworked to
> run Linux.
>
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:05 AM, arxaaron <arxaaron at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Looking back to when Jim took the initiative to start the
>> jobs list and took on the task of moderating it,  he did
>> state his intent to post opportunities in the IT/Tech
>> sector even when Linux / Unix / FLOSS were not
>> integral parts of the job descriptions. Some discussion
>> along the lines of the current debate followed, but
>> there was no commitment to filter out "off topic" posts.
>>
>> Though I stand by my convictions that posts to our jobs
>> list from outside companies, most especially recruiters,
>> should be limited to items with Linux & FLOSS relevance,
>> the ALE membership seems split on the issue.
>>
>> In the end it's the call of whoever has taken on the
>> volunteer task of moderating the list. The current
>> moderator a fair minded but avid FLOSS evangelist,
>> so I doubt the ALE-jobs list will become a wasteland
>> dumping ground for windisease recruiters.  Hopefully
>> this ALE offering will remain a high gravity brew with
>> a distinctive character.
>>
>> peace
>> aaron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2010/11/11, at 07:40 , Jim Kinney wrote:
>> > I stand by my decision to approve a job posting that had no
>> >
>> > specific Linux/FLOSS context except for one: the access to
>> >
>> > an opportunity to introduce the employer to our world.
>> >
>> > In order to expand the coverage of Linux, we have to have
>> >
>> > access to do so.  Standing outside the parking lot gate won't
>> >
>> > get it done. Standing inside the data center will.
>> >
>> > Besides it's loads of fun to replace a stack of windows machines
>> >
>> > with a pair of redundant Linux servers. It's hard to do that in an
>> >
>> > all Linux shop.
>> >
>> > Preaching to the choir is a waste of time when the game
>> >
>> > is to claim converts.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 10, 2010 11:53 PM, "arxaaron" <arxaaron at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > On 2010/11/10, at 22:10 , Mike Harrison wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> On Wed, 10 Nov 2010, Sparr wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Mike Harrison
>> > <cluon at geeklabs.com>
>> > >>> wrote:
>> > >>>> Would you rather give one of "us" Linux/FOSS aware
>> > >>>> people a chance at a paying job....
>> > >>>> or one of "them" M$-centric fanbois?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> By that logic, *any* job posting is relevant to this board, almost
>> > >>> all
>> > >>> of them more so than a MS job posting.
>> > >>
>> > >> I just hired a kid who's been working the Deli counter at Wal-
>> > Mart..
>> > >> Still
>> > >> is on weekends. But he can use vi, diff, and write some basic code.
>> > >> He's
>> > >> learning quickly. While I'm not so sure the Wal-Mart deli job
>> > >> posting is
>> > >> apropos to an ALE-Jobs or other technology list, I'm glad he had
>> > the
>> > >> job
>> > >> until he found employment as a Linux sysadmin.
>> > >>
>> > >> In 2004 I made more money as a welder than a Linux geek.
>> > >> Still have a dead spot in my right eye from it ("instant" on
>> > welding
>> > >> mask
>> > >> failed) The message I got that work from a posting to a Linux
>> > list and
>> > >> kept me fed for 6 months. (I made special brackets for antenna
>> > >> mounts).
>> > >>
>> > >> In 2005, I took a job that includes babysitting 14 2000/2003
>> > windows
>> > >> iMail
>> > >> and IIS servers. I converted most of them to a single Linux
>> > server. I
>> > >> could not have done that if I had not taken the job.
>> > >>
>> > >> It is far easier to convert the unwashed ignaorant masses from
>> > within
>> > >> the castle walls, than from across the moat.
>> > >
>> > > The point in this is not a question of whether working
>> > > in odd jobs, tech oriented or otherwise, MafiaSoft centric
>> > > or not, is better for someone than not working at all.
>> > >
>> > > The question is whether postings for those odd jobs
>> > > are appropriate to the ALE-jobs list, and the answer is
>> > > that they aren't. A posting for a welding gig or a babysitting
>> > > job or a windisease-only admin position are all equally
>> > > inappropriate to the context of the ALE-jobs list.
>> > >
>> > > If someone wants to (or is willing to) be a welder or a
>> > > babysitter or an accomplice to convicted corporate
>> > > criminals to pay the bills, there are many resources
>> > > available for finding work in those arenas. There is
>> > > no reason or justification for ALE to dilute its services
>> > > by trying to be a redundant echo of those resources.
>> > >
>> > > The point and purpose of the ALE-jobs list is to be a
>> > > clear resource for finding employment and employees
>> > > in arenas relating to some level of Linux, Unix, or
>> > > FLOSS administration or development. If the job
>> > > description doesn't include _something_ relating
>> > > to those, then it is clearly and simply inappropriate
>> > > and needs to be directed elsewhere. Otherwise we
>> > > might as well label it the ALE-craigslist and start
>> > > posting service offers from prostitutes and
>> > > employment offers from pimps because the list
>> > > will have no differentiating or specific purpose
>> > > at that point.
>> > >
>> > > peace
>> > > aaron
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Ale mailing list
>> > > Ale at ale.org
>> > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Ale mailing list
>> > Ale at ale.org
>> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> James P. Kinney III
> I would rather stumble along in freedom than walk effortlessly in chains.
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>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>
> End of Ale Digest, Vol 34, Issue 51
> ***********************************
>

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