[ale] Since we're on the subject of jobs lately

Wed Jul 16 10:22:58 EDT 2008

Well obviously there are 2 sides in an interview.  But if I'm taking the
time to bother going to an interview at all it means that on the surface
anyway the job looked interesting to me.   There has been more than one
job that I successfully got an offer from but decided during or after
the interview that it wasn't a good fit for me so declined the offer.

It amuses me that so many think the tail wags the dog rather than the
other way around.   I remember back during the boom days of IT how many
people came in acting as if they were doing us a favor by showing up and
how often we'd pass on them.   The "I wouldn't have wanted to work there
anyway" comment I've seen here a couple of times sounds a lot like "I
didn't want the grapes anyway, they were sour" to me.   

Having worked in the 70s, 80s, 90s and the new millennium I know that
the economy has ups and downs and pretending you're above it all is a
great way to insure you are more impacted by the downs.   Many folks
during the tech bust thought jobs were "beneath" them.  I have more
respect for an IT genius flipping burgers at McDonald's than I do for
the IT so-sos that sit on their derrieres collecting unemployment for a
year.

________________________________

From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Warren Myers
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 9:45 AM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: Re: [ale] Since we're on the subject of jobs lately

I'd argue that the company is trying to sell itself to you - and that if
you show up all decked-out that you're over doing it, and they'll know
they don't have to try hard to get you.

If you're competent - and you don't show up looking like a total slob -
they'll want you.

I never show up in anything more interesting than pants and a polo or
short-sleeve button-up shirt. If they're that stuffy, I don't want to
work there.

Course, if you *like* suits and ties (I haven't worn either in over 10
years), then go for it.

WMM

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Jeff Lightner <jlightner at water.com>
wrote:

I disagree with the tie comments.

There's an old saying:
You never get a second chance to make a first impression.

I've been employed in the IT field since 1991 and it was sometime before
1996 that everyone went casual - despite that as I noted above I've
always worn a suit and tie to interviews.  Once the job starts it's
casual all the way.

You're there trying to sell yourself to the potential employer.   Often
you're interviewing with a recruiter or HR person who knows little to
nothing of the technical end of the business and may not pass you on to
hiring manager based on perceptions.  You then often are interviewing
with management types who might well interpret casual dress (especially
if it isn't "neat") as a sign that you're not "serious" about the job.
While you will also interview with technical people usually this comes
AFTER the first two things.  The technical people are going to judge you
on what you say about technical questions and aren't going to hold a tie
against you the way some on this list have implied if your answers are
correct.

By the way there are still some jobs where suit and tie is required not
because its IT but because of the business.  I was even once asked to
shave my beard for an interview by a recruiter.  I didn't do it but am
just using it to illustrate the point that sometimes appearances as well
as technical ability do matter.

Of course you could always ask when arranging the interview whether they
would like you to wear a suit and tie.  Often enough they'll tell you it
is casual and you won't lose any points for coming in casual.  Just
remember casual in a business setting seldom means cutoffs and a
t-shirt.

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
William Bagwell
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 5:23 AM
To: Mike Harrison; ale at ale.org
Subject: Re: [ale] Since we're on the subject of jobs lately

On Tuesday 15 July 2008, Mike Harrison wrote:
> I recently (two days ago) interviewed a guy I'd like to hire,
> who wore a tie. Badly. It was new, shiney and like his new blue
> shirt, just didn't fit.

You should have rung a cowbell and cut his tie off with a pair of
scissors.

Hey, it happend to me! Not a job interview, this was about 20 years ago
in
a steakhouse somewhere out west... Think it was this one.
http://www.pppatio.com/OldFiles/history/index.html

Garish green with white polka dot clown tie that hung down to my waist,
so
I even got an extra insult ad-libbed into the script:) Can't recall ever

wearing a tie since.
--
William
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-- 

Warren Myers
http://warrenmyers.com 

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