[ale] OT: Anybody sick today?

Tue Dec 30 14:06:50 EST 2003

As one who went from about 160 to 125 in a month or so (Ranger School) the
"no appetite" phenomenon is due to stomach shrinkage (as it was explained to
me by some docs).  For the first 2-3 weeks of food deprivation one will feel
hunger pains, but as the body adjusts, they go away (somewhat).  Eating a
normal meal will seem like overeating (even to the point of vomiting).

(Once more clicking & copy/paste overcomes typing)

For studies against the Atkins diet:
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/62/71792.htm

When you go on a high fat/high protein diet, you may temporarily lose weight
but you may mortgage your health in the process.

Here's how you lose weight:

   1. Burn more calories
   2. Eat fewer calories.

That's it.

You can burn more calories by exercising.

You can eat fewer calories by consuming less food. That's why you can lose
weight on any diet, but it's hard to keep it off because you feel hungry and
deprived. An easier way to consume fewer calories is to eat less fat,
because fat has nine calories/gram whereas protein and carbohydrates have
only four. So, when you eat less fat, you consume fewer calories without
having to eat less food.

High protein diets are based on a half-truth, which is what makes them
seductive. I agree with the high protein advocates that it's wise to eat
fewer simple carbohydrates, including sugar, white flour, and white rice.
These are low in fiber, so you get a double-whammy: a lot of calories that
don't fill you up, and they get absorbed quickly, causing your blood sugar
to zoom up. Your body makes more insulin to lower your blood sugar, but too
much insulin also accelerates the conversion of calories into fat.

The diagnosis is correct--too many simple carbohydrates--but the
prescription is wrong. The solution is not to go from simple carbohydrates
to pork rinds and bacon but from simple carbohydrates to complex
carbohydrates. These include whole wheat, brown rice, and fruits,
vegetables, grains, and legumes in their natural, unrefined forms.

These foods are naturally high in fiber, which slows their absorption,
preventing a rapid rise in blood sugar and an excessive insulin response.
Fiber also fills you up before you eat too many calories, whereas you can
consume large amounts of sugar without feeling full. Also, these foods
contain at least a thousand substances that are protective, having
anti-cancer, anti-heart disease, and anti-aging properties. You get the
weight loss benefits of a high protein diet while enhancing rather than
mortgaging your health.

There is additional benefit from consuming a diet lower in fat as well as
lower in simple carbohydrates. Fat has nine calories per gram, whereas
protein and carbohydrates have only four. Thus, reducing fat intake reduces
caloric intake without having to reduce the amount of food, thereby
increasing satiety without adding calories. In addition, fruits, vegetables,
grains, and legumes are rich in phytochemicals, bioflavinoids, carotenoids
such as lycopene, retinols, sulforaphanes, isoflavones, polyphenols, and
other substances that may reduce the risk of many chronic diseases.

On a high protein diet, you may lose some weight because you're eating fewer
simple carbohydrates. But you can lose even more weight by eating fewer
simple carbohydrates and less fat. And you enhance your health instead of
harming it.

The only peer-reviewed study of the effects of a high protein diet on heart
disease found that blood flow to the heart actually worsened and heart
disease became more severe (www.ornish.com). Also, high protein diets may
cause loss of calcium and decreased levels of urinary citrate, leading to
osteoporosis and kidney stones. Recently, a case report in a peer-reviewed
journal described the fatal cardiac arrest of a sixteen-year-old girl who
had started a high protein/low carbohydrate diet only two weeks earlier
[Stevens A, Robinson DP, Turpin J, et al. "Sudden cardiac death of an
adolescent during dieting." Southern Medical Journal. 2002;95:1047-1049].

One study of the Atkins diet was published in a peer-reviewed journal,
funded by Dr. Atkins (Westman EC et al, Am J Med. 2002;113:30-36). Reported
side-effects included constipation (68%), bad breath (63%), headache (21%),
hair loss (10%), and increased menstrual bleeding (3%). Not a healthy way to
lose weight. The study reported that LDL-cholesterol levels decreased by
only 7%, and they excluded two of the 41 patients because their cholesterol
levels went up. Also, there was no control group for comparison. Patients
lost an average of 19.8 pounds but were followed for only six months. No
other published studies have shown that people on an Atkins diet can
maintain weight loss for longer periods of time.

Recently, the same investigators reported an abstract at the American Heart
Association annual scientific sessions. 120 people were randomly assigned to
follow an Atkins diet or an American Heart Association diet. The study
concluded that the Atkins diet was superior to the AHA diet both in effect
on weight and on lipids. This study was widely reported in the media even
though it was significantly flawed: only Atkins patients were given fish oil
and flax seed oil (which lower triglycerides), and data from only 63 of the
120 patients were reported. Headlines claimed, "Atkins diet superior to
low-fat diet," when the diet they compared to was not very low in fat and
was high in simple carbohydrates, unlike the diet I recommend which is much
lower in both fat and in simple carbohydrates.

In contrast, the more closely and the longer people followed a low-fat whole
foods diet that I recommend, the more their heart disease reversed
(improved). In our research, angina (chest pain) decreased by 91% and
LDL-cholesterol levels fell 40% without medications. Patients lost an
average of 24 pounds and kept half off for at least five years (Ornish D et
al. JAMA. 1998;280:2001-2007). Most patients eligible for bypass surgery or
angioplasty were able to safely avoid it, saving almost $30,000/patient.
These findings were published in the leading peer-reviewed medical journals.
After an extensive review of our scientific findings, Medicare is now
covering 1,800 men and women to go through our lifestyle program in
hospitals across the country.

A recent study in a peer-reviewed journal compared people who followed an
Atkins diet, an American Heart Association (AHA) diet, and the diet I
recommend in 100 men and women. They found the most weight loss on the diet
I recommend (1 pound/week), next was Atkins at 0.6 pounds/week, then the 30%
calorie restricted diet (0.55 lb/week). On the diet I recommend, there was a
35% decrease in LDL at 4 months, 51% at 8 months, and 52% at 12 months. On
the Atkins diet, there was a 1.3% increase in LDL at 4 months, 1.5% increase
at 8 months., and a 6% increase at 12 months. On the AHA diet, there was a
0.8% decrease in LDL at 4 months, 3.4% decrease at 8 months, and 1.5%
decrease at 12 months. (Fleming RM. Preventive Cardiology. 5(3):110-8,
2002.)

I'd love to be able to say that sausage and bacon are good for you, but
they're not. I eat high-fat foods sometimes, but I don't delude myself into
believing they're good for me. It's not that fats are bad; we just eat too
much of them. Fish oil and flaxseed oil are very good for you because they
provide the omega-3 fatty acids that can substantially reduce the incidence
of sudden cardiac death and may help prevent some forms of cancer, but you
only need about three grams a day for the protective benefits. More than
that provides no additional benefit, just extra fat and thus extra calories.

You don't have to make such big reductions in fat and cholesterol to lose
weight and prevent disease as to reverse it. The old saying about an ounce
of prevention and a pound of cure is true. To lose weight, it's not all or
nothing. It takes more to reverse disease than to prevent it.

You have a spectrum of choices. My site at WebMD (www.Ornish.com) can help
you customize a diet and lifestyle program that is just right for you based
on your own needs and preferences. An optimal diet for most people is based
predominantly on fruits, vegetables, grains, and legumes (including soy
products) in their natural forms, high in complex carbohydrates and low in
simple carbohydrates. Some may wish to add small amounts of lean animal
protein. To the degree you reduce your intake of simple carbohydrates and
excessive fat, then you may lose weight and gain health.

Dean Ornish, M.D.
Founder and President, Preventive Medicine Research Institute
Clinical Professor of Medicine, University of California, San Francisco
Author, Eat More, Weigh Less and Dr. Dean Ornish's Program for Reversing
Heart Disease

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of
> ChangingLINKS.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 1:29 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] OT: Anybody sick today?
>
>
> On Tuesday 30 December 2003 11:08, Stephen Touset wrote:
> > Unfortunately, most of the weight lost in the initial few weeks of the
> > Atkins diet is water;
> Obviously you have not been on the diet. Otherwise you would
> *see*  that your
> body becomes more trim. Also, people that diet tend to be more concerned
> about their excercise and vice versa. When I am on the diet I drink a LOT
> more water (often 2 Liters straight before riding,  close to 2
> liters riding
> 15 miles on the bike, 2 liters of sugar free koolaid for the rest of the
> day). Also, I skip beer, caffine/chocolate. You are implying that
> the diet
> ITSELF works as a diurectic(spelling).
>
> Support that with research.
>
> > Also, I've never been a fan of treating symptoms. Most often, being
> > overweight is a symptom of larger health concerns--bad eating
> habits, lack
> > of exercise, etc.
>
> People that diet tend to . . .. excercise more. Though I don't have the
> article that says that, from my own experience and watching
> others, I can see
> that the diet is a great way to start new habits. Go on the diet
> for a week,
> and you will find it only neccessary to each once a day. Other
> times of the
> day you may not feel hungry at all. This gives a person time to
> "get over"
> bad eating habits, start from scratch and become more health conscious.
>
> > What you need to be treating is your health, not the
> > weight.
>
> No. I disagree. I feel that you need to treat BOTH.
> Why? Atkins drops weight so fast, a person can see results. They
> are rewarded
> for their effort more quickly, and therefore the is less time to
> "give up."
> In my case I can drop the weight faster than I pick it up. I
> think most "hard
> core (*zero* carb for a week - or more) Atkins dieters would say the same.
>
> > While Atkins may do a great job of dropping those scale numbers, it
> > also does a nice job of completely messing up the chemistry
> your body was
> > designed to handle, which can't be healthy.
>
> Support that with some reasearch please. You claim it messes up
> the chemistry,
> it sucks the water right out of your body through the skin like a
> vampire. :)
> You fail to mention anything about the effects of obesity. You
> fail to mention
> that the Atkins diet forces the dieter away from McDonald's,
> extra desert,
> and poor food combinations. You fail to mention how the Atkins
> diet forces us
> to WATCH what we eat.
>
> > And in the end, it's not the
> > numbers on the scale that determine how long your heart keeps
> ticking, but
> > the other ones which get ignored when people equate being thin and light
> > with being healthy.
>
> Hell the articles I posted before disagree. In one article I
> think it mentions
> "obesity trumps a lot of other health issues."
> Your attitude seems to be that someone is going to get on the Atkins diet
> eating only steak forever, not work out, not take vitamins, and actually
> become anorexic. It seems like you don't have experience with the
> diet, and
> don't know anyone who has either.
>
> The Atkins diet is visually, emotionally and physically rewarding.
> One does not have to do it "forever," and is still a great tool
> for reaching
> health goals.
>
> Read Jeff Hubs WORDS below and you will see he lost weight, he
> changed his
> eating habits, he is successful. THAT is what Atkins is about.
> --
> Wishing you Happiness, Joy and Laughter,
> Drew Brown
> http://www.ChangingLINKS.com
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Hubbs" <hbbs at comcast.net>
> > To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 11:33 AM
> > Subject: RE: [ale] OT: Anybody sick today?
> >
> >
> > > I've been doing a reduced-carb thing since about June and I've lost on
> > > the order of 20-25 pounds; I haven't weighed this since
> college (and I'm
> > > now 40).  I've had to shrink my watchband and my wedding ring, sized
> > > over ten years ago, has begun to fall off my hand.
> > >
> > > I used to be a Raisin-Bran-for-breakfast guy; that went out the window
> > > and so has pasta twice a week!
> > >
> > > I went basically almost-no-carb that first week and then went up to a
> > > less severe but greatly reduced level.
> > >
> > > - Jeff
> > >
> > > On Tue, 2003-12-30 at 10:30, Eichler, Paula J. wrote:
> > > > Periodically I "do Atkins" to reduce my weight by 10-15
> pounds.  Most of
> > > > the loss is retained water and a little fat.  It is easily
> regained when
> > > > I go off the diet.
> > > >
> > > > This diet is for the "carbo cravers".  I love potatoes, bread, rice,
> > > > pasta, beer, etc. and will eat drink and be merry until my
> clothes don't
> > > > fit anymore.  Atkins effectively removes these cravings and
> the weight
> > > > comes off pretty fast.  After a week, I have to remind
> myself to eat,
> > > > because I just don't get hungry ..pj
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>