[ale] OT: H1B

Tue Dec 17 13:16:28 EST 2002

I agree with you. If you are not part of global economy you are going to
loose much more. i.e If the companyies does not buy cheap software, they
cannot produce lower cost of goods. In that case the whole industry is going
to suffer. You are part of global economy. You have no chice. Try to make an
advantage of it. cheers.

-----Original Message-----
From: ahuitzot at mindspring.com [mailto:ahuitzot at mindspring.com]
To: ale at ale.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 10:12 AM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: RE: [ale] OT: H1B

And my point is, if we keep outsourcing there will not be anyone left in
america that would be able to afford these "cheap" software (or what ever)
products, because none of us will be left employed!  Unless of course you do
not mind working for $7 an hr at arbys with no health insurance (or a very
minimum).

In this way the "Global" economy makes no sense.  You cut out all the
"Expensive" workers here, and there is noone left with enough money to buy
your product, except maybe other companies.  Hmm. Ponder that for awhile....

Mike

On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:17:57 -0500 "ANNAREDDY,REDDY (HP-Cupertino,ex1)"
<reddyraja.annareddy at hp.com> wrote:

> Hi,
> I am a H1B holder working in US. US has no
> option left except to brings H1
> and also outsource the work. Let us see the
> reasons behind the argument.
> Europe is already having good software
> engineering background. 
> 
> 1. Competition among companies has increased a
> lot. If you don't provide
> software for cheap, some one will provide it
> and take over your market. The
> market is now a global economy. You can no
> loner think locally. Suppose you
> produce the software locally. In order for you
> to compete globally, you have
> to have a reasonable price. Given the emrging
> developing nations like India,
> China, they can write software at a much lower
> cost compared to when the
> software is written in US. In order for US
> software companies to survice,
> the only way out is to be part of the Global
> economy and invest in India,
> otherwise they are going to loose the
> competition. If you see Intel, Sun,
> IBM, HP, Ford, GM, GE, all these companies have
> office in India. Thousands
> of sofwtware professionals are working in these
> companies to prodeuce
> cheaper software.
> 2. If the software is cheap, the benefits you
> are going to get are
>    a.Lower insurance in most of the cases.
> Because if they by expensive
> software, they have to charge more insurance.
>    b. Platics and Platic goods: Cheaper to
> produce in China compared to any
> other country in the world. If this is not so,
> you have to buy the same
> pieice for $10 if made in US as compared to $1
> if made in China. This means
> the inflation will go up. The cost of living
> will go up. Our salary will not
> be sufficient to survive.
>    c. Even companies in India are shifting
> their manufacturing bases to
> china for cheaper platic goods. Economy is
> truly Global.
> 3. Ireland a small country amounts major
> software exports in all over the
> world.
> 4. The companies not only have to survive, they
> have to make profit.
> Othewise invertors will not invest and the
> stock goes down. US economy is
> driven by stock value as compared to a real
> value of the company. A company
> is what an anlyst see as it is. It is not the
> company the employess are made
> of etc.
> 
> 5. I think going forwared, the days are going
> to be tough. India and China
> also have tough tasks ahead.
> 
> 6. I think, US is doing what it is supposed to
> do(Smart). It is the mart
> move in the Global economy to keep inflation
> low and economy moving.
> Otherwise there will me more layoffs etc.
> 
> 7. Why do we buy Japanese goods specifically
> Cars etc. Becuase they last
> long. The economy is truly global.
> 
> 8. I think the next century belongs to those,
> who produce goods at a cheaper
> cost. Does this country ever producess like
> this. There is a point at which
> this country has to yield to other developing
> nations. As the econmomy
> becomes global, more and more developing
> countries will take part keeping
> the cost of goods down and keeping the
> inlfation down.
> 
> 9. We have to figure out new ways to survive
> ourselves. Other wise we are
> going to loose the cause.
> 
> 10. The reson why US is developed beacause of
> the intense cold war. They are
> forced to develop.
>   For any nation to survive, the people should
> not rest. For people not to
> rest,there has to be issues.
> 
> --cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ray Knight
> [mailto:audilover at atlantabroadband.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 8:58 PM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Subject: RE: [ale] OT: H1B
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2002-12-16 at 15:58, Mazukna, Thomas
> wrote:
> > Geoffrey wrote:
> > > I don't know if they do or not.  Bottom
> line for me is, I see too
> many 
> > > VERY GOOD technical U.S. Citizens out of
> work, and therefore think
> that 
> > > H1Bs should be stopped for until this
> problem is resolved.
> > 
> > Stopping H1b will not solve the problem.
> Period. But it is convenient
> to
> > blame someone else instead.
> > 
> > > Again, if there are citizens who are
> capable of performing the
> function, 
> > > they should get the first shot.
> > 
> > And it is in 99% of the cases. Have you
> looked at job offerings? 99%
> say "No
> > H1b sponsorship" on the first line. 
> > 
> > If you are in good health and can not find a
> job in US you are doing
> > something wrong. Take a look around there are
> plenty of jobs, but it
> will
> > not be 100k+ consulting gig, but you will not
> starve to death. H1b on
> the
> > other hand once lost the job, must leave the
> country immediately,
> since you
> > can not work for any other company.
> > 
>  
> A risk the H1B visa holder should have been
> aware of before taking the
> job.  If you can't live by the rules of the
> visa don't accept it. 
> Besides most H1B visa holders are creating
> "brain drain" problems in
> their home country.  If they stayed home and
> put there knowledge to work
> they would not have the same standard of living
> they enjoy in the U.S.,
> but would be improving the future of their own
> country.
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> 
> 
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