<html><head></head><body>My biggest concern with computers in cars is if I will EVER get license to fix/replace/upgrade as I choose. Having secrets that must be handled by a specially trained flunky (plug in the box, turn on ignition, type in the code that proves the owner will pay $X00) is beyond irritating. A replacement key was $180, $80 for the key and $100 for programming the computer to accept it. The valet key, with no chip, locks the car to under 35mph (ok. That's nice.)<br><br>I had an '81 Porche 924 Turbo that had a computer. And a vacuum leak at the fitting into the sensor on the computer. They are everywhere. And they all need to be 'open for business'.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On July 23, 2021 7:21:50 PM EDT, Solomon Peachy via Ale <ale@ale.org> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail">On Fri, Jul 23, 2021 at 04:45:16PM -0400, Steve Litt via Ale wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"> Most of the cars I drove were made before 1990, most had carburetors,<br> and at least three had no semiconductors of any kind. The considerable<br> probing diagnostics you said were required required were mostly<br> preventive maintenance:<br><br> * Replace the plugs if over 2 years old (gap the new ones)<br> - Keep the old plugs for later diagnostics<br> * Replace the points if over 2 years old<br> * Replace the spark plug wires if over 2 years old<br></blockquote><br>Cars made in the last decade or so routinely hit 100K before _any_<br>preventative maintainence (other than oil/filter changes) is recommended.<br><br>(Indeed, it's pretty easy to find 100K warranties today, but 40 years ago<br> even 24K was unusual!)<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">* Change your oil every 3000 miles<br></blockquote><br>Routinely 5-10K with modern cars, though that's more due to use of <br>high-grade synthetic oils. It's also routine to have no fixed interval, <br>instead having the vehicle tell the operator when the oil needs changing <br>(based on mileage, time, and/or severity of service)<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">* Change your transmission fluid every 48K miles if automatic<br> transmission<br></blockquote><br>Routinely closer to 100K, though it does of course depend on how badly <br>one abuses it.<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">* Look at your temperature gauge (not idiot light) every few minutes<br> - Necessary on modern cars too<br></blockquote><br>It's good practice to sweep the instrument cluster every so often, but <br>realisticly, the temperature gauge isn't soemething you're going to <br>specifically monitor unless you already know the vehicle has issues or <br>you are giving it a serious thrashing.<br><br>(And it's also pretty easy to miss, which is why vehicles have routinely <br> had warning lights/chines for over-temperature situations. At least as <br> far back as the late 60s)<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">The preceding were usually between dead bang easy and pretty easy on<br>those simple cars. And the plugs and points were cheap as hell, the<br>wires were about 2-3 hours pay for a programmer. The preceding being<br>finished:<br></blockquote><br>You enumerate all of these things as if they are things that everyone <br>should be expected to know as a matter of course, and have handy all of <br>the tools needed to undertake these tasks. Whereas, in reality, the <br>overwhelming majority of folks, even when those cars were new-ish, did <br>not have the knowledge/expertise or tools to handle this stuff <br>themselves. They'd take their car to a mechanic or work something out <br>with someone they know who "knows how to fix cars,"<br><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">As far as modern "excruciatingly detailed diagnostics", look up all the<br>root causes possible for an PO420 OBD2 message. Careful you don't<br>replace a fabulously expensive catalytic converter bank when the root<br>cause is an upsteam O2 sensor, a downstream o2 sensor, an exhaust leak,<br>an intake leak, a faulty ECU computer, or faulty wiring.<br></blockquote><br>In other words, at worst one has to follow the same diagnostic process <br>as was necessary with any pre-OBD car that failed emissions tests or was <br>exhibiting some sort of driveline problems -- which for most folks is <br>"take it to someone who knows how to fix cars" ....and hope they're <br>honest.<br><br> - Solomon</pre></blockquote></div><br>-- <br>Computers amplify human error<br>Super computers are really cool</body></html>