<html dir="ltr"><head></head><body style="text-align:left; direction:ltr;"><div><sigh></div><div><br></div><div>Simba,</div><div><br></div><div>There was a polite request to bring silence to the thread. Please respect it and refrain from further posting for a while.</div><div><br></div><div></sigh></div><div><br></div><div>On Wed, 2018-12-19 at 14:50 -0500, Simba via Ale wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre>I hope that we move to a forum model, without writing a novel I think</pre><pre>it's probably a better format. But I am "the new guy" so whatever :)</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Simba Lion - </pre><a href="https://tailpuff.net"><pre>https://tailpuff.net</pre></a><pre><br></pre><a href="https://keybase.io/simbalion"><pre>https://keybase.io/simbalion</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>"Why is a raven like a writing desk?"</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>On 12/19/18 2:46 PM, Jim Kinney via Ale wrote:</pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre>AAAANNNDDDDD...</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>this thread is dead please.There's no further discussion required of</pre><pre>timelines or anything else. It has been archived publicly for the entire</pre><pre>world to see and laugh at.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>"Oh look! ANOTHER mailing list goes up in smoke in 2018."</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Should start seeing the unsubscribe notifications start up in the next</pre><pre>hour.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>:-(</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>On Wed, 2018-12-19 at 19:40 +0000, Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale wrote:</pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre>Someone who I didn't name now takes umbrage at what I said which would seem to prove my point. There's an old saying: </pre><pre>The guilty flee where none pursue. </pre><pre><br></pre><pre>For the record I saw a reasonable discussion of shared hosting yesterday until at 11 AM when that "someone" suggested that posters were providing BS and stated the world was full of liars. </pre><pre><br></pre><pre>At 11:30 AM that same "someone" directly contradicted a statement by another poster that he couldn't possibly know was either true or untrue because only that poster and DO would know. He again called it BS.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>At 11:32 AM in response to the second attack the other poster called him a shill. By that point I'll have to say I too though that "someone" was being way too aggressive and suspected the likely reason was a vested interest in DO.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>In my book that timing shows clearly what started the "flame". Until then it was just a discussion of different viewpoints. I didn't even think it was wrong to ask if user error was involved but once one starts throwing around terms like "BS" and "liars" it has gotten out of hand and that "someone" lost all credibility as it suggested an inability to make reasoned arguments.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>I've on occasion seen issues that no one else seems to have and I've also on occasion seen others complain of issues that I've not seen. However, in neither case do I immediately leap to the conclusion that others are lying or full of BS. Instead I assume they simply had different experiences than I or at worst one of us is mistaken. </pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Since trolls can never admit when they're wrong I'll let that "someone" have the next (and hopefully) last post on the subject.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>-----Original Message-----</pre><pre>From: Ale <</pre><a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org"><pre>ale-bounces@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org"><pre>ale-bounces@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre>On Behalf Of Simba via Ale</pre></blockquote><pre>Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 2:10 PM</pre><pre>To: </pre><a href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><pre>ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><pre>ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Subject: Re: [ale] Lower cost hosting for ALE</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Hardly, I have zero patience for BS, and it's my opinion that when the first statement made in a post is incitement the rest of the post be treated as junk.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Such as when Mr. Carver called my a Shill, or when Mr. Lightner blamed me just now for starting a flame war.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>What actually happened is I challenged two individuals for their claims of mistreatment by a well-respected company not known for such things, and only one of them sort-of supported their claims, and the other immediately resorted to name-calling. And comparing my lack of patience to Mr. Torvald's history of abusive behavior is hardly fair, by the way.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>And furthermore, everyone is able to read the archive and judge for themselves so there is zero need to regurgitate any of it. Unless one is trying to re-ignite a fight. Which is a separate concern.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>However, I agree Leam did nothing wrong posting his question. And I believe he got some good answers.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Simba Lion - </pre><a href="https://tailpuff.net"><pre>https://tailpuff.net</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><a href="https://keybase.io/simbalion"><pre>https://keybase.io/simbalion</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>"Why is a raven like a writing desk?"</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>On 12/19/18 2:04 PM, dev null zero two via Ale wrote:</pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre>*whoosh*</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 2:03 PM Simba via Ale <</pre><a href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><pre>ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><pre>ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><pre> </pre><pre><mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><pre>ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><pre>ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre>wrote:</pre></blockquote></blockquote><pre><br></pre><pre> You're targeting me and I don't appreciate it. The man called me a</pre><pre> shill. I didn't start the fire. And you're trying to throw fuel on it.</pre><pre><br></pre><pre> Simba Lion - </pre><a href="https://tailpuff.net"><pre>https://tailpuff.net</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre> </pre><a href="https://keybase.io/simbalion"><pre>https://keybase.io/simbalion</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre> "Why is a raven like a writing desk?"</pre><pre><br></pre><pre> On 12/19/18 2:02 PM, Lightner, Jeffrey via Ale wrote:</pre><pre> > Leam, asking a technical question is the point of this list so you</pre><pre> have nothing for which to apologize.</pre><pre> ></pre><pre> > The fact that someone decided to attack both the people that</pre><pre> indicated they had had past problems with Digital Ocean isn't even</pre><pre> their fault. It is purely that of the attacker - you don't get far</pre><pre> by calling people liars. One of them did respond by calling him a</pre><pre> shill but that was a reaction to the attacks in my opinion. I</pre><pre> started to respond in that thread but then realized I'd just be</pre><pre> adding fuel to the fire. Long ago I learned the best way to deal</pre><pre> with trollish behavior is to ignore the trolls. Such attacks</pre><pre> always make me suspect the attacker has a vested interest in what he</pre><pre> is defending and almost always make me think less of the attacker</pre><pre> than of those he is attacking.</pre><pre> ></pre><pre> > By the way, we use DO here for one Joomla page that is unimportant</pre><pre> to our operation because Joomla is regularly pinged as insecure by</pre><pre> security scanners and there was no need to have that on our main web</pre><pre> servers. We've never used Vultr and I don't have a strong opinion</pre><pre> on either.</pre><pre> ></pre><pre> > Every time I see a mini-flame war here I'm reminded of the scene</pre><pre> in the Godfather where Clemenza tells Michael that mob wars must</pre><pre> happen, every once in a while, to clear the air. They're not quite</pre><pre> as vicious as the ones from years ago.</pre><pre> ></pre><pre> > I'm surprised to see suggestion of splitting the list into a</pre><pre> professional's list and another again (though I applaud the</pre><pre> cleverness of the pale-ale name). Every time that has been</pre><pre> suggested in the past it seemed to just start another flame war.</pre><pre> ></pre><pre> > It was interesting to me that a separate place was apparently</pre><pre> started as I don't recall that in the many years I've been on this</pre><pre> list. Either I missed it during a vacation or it happened before I</pre><pre> got here, or I wasn't invited. </pre><pre> ></pre><pre> > It is amusing to see that the person that first went personal in</pre><pre> the shared hosting thread is now suggesting they want to help with</pre><pre> creating a separate list. That seems to ignore what Jim wrote as to</pre><pre> his reasoning for raising the prospect again.</pre><pre> ></pre><pre> > -----Original Message-----</pre><pre> > From: Ale <</pre><a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org"><pre>ale-bounces@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org"><pre>ale-bounces@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org"><pre>ale-bounces@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org"><pre>ale-bounces@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre>On</pre></blockquote></blockquote><pre> Behalf Of Leam Hall via Ale</pre><pre> > Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2018 12:46 PM</pre><pre> > To: Rich Roberts via Ale <</pre><a href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><pre>ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><pre>ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><pre>ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:ale@ale.org"><pre>ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre><br></pre></blockquote></blockquote><pre> > Subject: Re: [ale] Lower cost hosting for ALE</pre><pre> ></pre><pre> > On 12/19/18 12:41 PM, Rich Roberts via Ale wrote:</pre><pre> >> I believe this is the thread. *"Replacing shared host"*</pre><pre> ></pre><pre> > Yes; it was pretty pathetic. Sadly, I started the thread; for that</pre><pre> you all have my deepest apologies.</pre><pre> ></pre><pre> > Leam</pre><pre> > _______________________________________________</pre><pre> > Ale mailing list</pre><pre> > </pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre><br></pre></blockquote><pre> > </pre><a href="https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale"><pre>https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at</pre><pre> > </pre><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo"><pre>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre> > _______________________________________________</pre><pre> > Ale mailing list</pre><pre> > </pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre><br></pre></blockquote><pre> > </pre><a href="https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale"><pre>https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at</pre><pre> > </pre><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo"><pre>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre> ></pre><pre> _______________________________________________</pre><pre> Ale mailing list</pre><pre> </pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre><br></pre></blockquote><pre> </pre><a href="https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale"><pre>https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at</pre><pre> </pre><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo"><pre>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>Ale mailing list</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><pre><br></pre><a href="https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale"><pre>https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at </pre><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo"><pre>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre></blockquote><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>Ale mailing list</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><pre><br></pre><a href="https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale"><pre>https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at</pre><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo"><pre>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>Ale mailing list</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre> <mailto:</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre>></pre><pre><br></pre><a href="https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale"><pre>https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at</pre><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo"><pre>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre></blockquote><pre>-- </pre><pre><br></pre><pre>James P. Kinney III</pre><pre><br></pre><pre>Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you</pre><pre>gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his</pre><pre>own tail. It won't fatten the dog.</pre><pre>- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain</pre><pre><br></pre><a href="http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/"><pre>http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>Ale mailing list</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><a href="https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale"><pre>https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at</pre><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo"><pre>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre><br></pre></blockquote><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><pre>Ale mailing list</pre><a href="mailto:Ale@ale.org"><pre>Ale@ale.org</pre></a><pre><br></pre><a href="https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale"><pre>https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</pre></a><pre><br></pre><pre>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at</pre><a href="http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo"><pre>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</pre></a><pre><br></pre></blockquote><div><span><pre><pre>-- <br></pre>James P. Kinney III
Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you
gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his
own tail. It won't fatten the dog.
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain
http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
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