[ale] Linux on 6GB Dell notebook?

Tue Nov 16 15:18:46 EST 2021

Have you all seen the new Framework laptop? It's designed to be Linux
friendly and easy to self-repair and upgrade. Very modular with QR coded
parts that lead to replacement instructions. I'm not ready for a new device
at the moment but it's definitely at the top of my list to look at if I do
anytime soon.

https://frame.work/

On the other hand, I'm kind of leaning toward keeping the high powered dev
box at work (desktop) and just keeping a small, thin, light browsing laptop
that I can read the news on at lunch, take notes on at conferences and
offsite meetings, and watch movies on at airports and during flights.

Scott

On Mon, Nov 15, 2021 at 9:56 PM Jim Kinney via Ale <ale at ale.org> wrote:

> I've spent $$ on laptops with good results.
>
> BUT I was buying some top of the line gear from Dell or IBM. My 16GB XPS15
> has 1TB NVME and dual GPU with quad-core Intel cpu and on cpu graphics AND
> a discreet Nvidia GPU with dedicated ram. But it was $1600 and the touch
> screen (disabled in bios) shipped with the 4K screen.
>
> Spend that money on a desktop for a state of the art Ryzen with 32 GB ram
> and 1TB NVME and 12TB rust drives plus a decent monitor and graphics.
>
> Yeah. Big box is cheaper.
>
>
> On November 15, 2021 7:02:09 PM EST, Steve Litt via Ale <ale at ale.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> True Jim!
>>
>> Laptops break my heart in so many ways. Relatively low clock speeds.
>> 5400 RPM. No way to have both an SSD and a multi-terrabyte spinning
>> rust. Wifi that doesn't work with Linux. Graphics that doesn't work
>> with Linux. Fragile, dust-prone, overheats easily. A few drops of a
>> drink in the keyboard or a hit to the screen renders the whole machine
>> useless. Selling me the touchscreen I don't need and skimping on the RAM
>> I do.
>>
>> And the Big Kahuna: DIY hostile.
>>
>> I'm typing this on my self-built AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6-Core (12 thread)
>> Processor, 64GB RAM, ventilated six ways from Tuesday tower format
>> desktop. I don't get into trouble opening 20 Chromium tabs. It has an
>> internal CD/DVD/Blu-ray reader/writer because dangit, I want it, even
>> if the Mac folks have declared optical to be dead. Root mounted on 1TB
>> NVme, all data partitions (like /home) mounted on a 14TB 7200 RPM
>> Western Digital spinning rust, so no worries about files for years to
>> come. And if I need more disk space, there are a couple more bays in
>> the case. Plenty of resources for a couple heavy duty VM guests,
>> including an Ubuntu/Jitsi appliance (which I haven't yet perfected).
>>
>> Now it's true, I spent just short of $2000.00 on this monstrosity, but
>> a similar laptop with only 512GB NVMe is $2700, with no place to put
>> the spinning rust other than consuming a precious USB3 slot.
>>
>> You're right Jim. Desktop's the way to go. If you need to take it on
>> the road, a simple low level laptop can be synced with your high power
>> desktop.
>>
>> I've had countless laptops, and they've all broken my heart.
>>
>> SteveT
>>
>>
>> Jim Kinney said on Mon, 15 Nov 2021 18:19:12 -0500
>>
>> It's pretty amazing the hardware ability $300 buys in a desktop
>>> device. Even a 3-4 year old  cheap desktop is faster than a 5-7 laptop
>>> of the same price. Portable horsepower is expensive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On November 15, 2021 2:32:22 PM EST, Steve Litt via Ale <ale at ale.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Neal Rhodes via Ale said on Mon, 15 Nov 2021 08:22:40 -0600
>>>>
>>>> So, Thanks for the advice on helping friend with virus scan on their
>>>>> 6gb Dell notebook.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that got it to the point of occasionally running ok, but
>>>>> also often needing more than 6GB for Win 10, and starting to thrash.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I love Linux as much as the next guy, but did you try cleaning up
>>>> extraneous applications, getting rid of registry deadwood, and
>>>> defragging?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It's one of those Dells without a RAM door on the bottom.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There's a special place in the devil's playground for those who design
>>>> and manufacture DIY hostile equipment and software.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The recommendation from HL computer was to swap the drive with a
>>>>> 500GB
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> SSD, and virus scan the new drive.  They wanted $260 for that.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You could buy that same drive from Newegg for $60.00 and install it
>>>> yourself, except for no door. Special place...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm seeing Walmart is peddling an HP I3 with 8GB RAM, 220GB SSD for
>>>>> $270 this week.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which is actually a better proposition.  Friend's finances are
>>>>>
>>>> limited.
>>>>
>>>> If finances are limited, my suggestion is install a *low resource use*
>>>> Linux. And my further suggestion is that your friend put the $270
>>>> toward a new computer, and save money every month just so his next
>>>> computer can handle today's browsers and browser apps. It's not that
>>>> Linux is getting more bloated, at least if you use the right software
>>>> with Linux. The problem is that browsers are turning into RAM and MIP
>>>> sinks.
>>>>
>>>> I'm debating telling him I'll give him $100 for the old notebook and
>>>>> reformat it for linux.   Likely Ubuntu.
>>>>>
>>>>> Guessing Ubuntu will run fine in 6GB.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not with the Ubuntu standard setup. I'd suggest:
>>>>
>>>> WM/DE: Openbox or LXDE. Both are very light. Openbox is
>>>>        significantly lighter.
>>>>
>>>> Daemons: CUPS and SSHD. Nothing else.
>>>>
>>>> Browser: For picky sites, use Chromium. For the rest, use something
>>>>          like Dillo or Midori. With Chromium, keep only one or at the
>>>>          most two tabs open.
>>>>
>>>> Workflow: Don't have a lot of programs running at once.
>>>>
>>>> It's been a couple of years since I did that.  Are there new hurdles
>>>>> with doing a fresh install?  EUFI?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> UEFI shouldn't be a problem because an old computer like that is
>>>> probably either MBR or UEFI with Legacy Mode. Your hard disk is much
>>>> smaller than 2GB, which is the cutoff (as I remember) at which you
>>>> lose space not formatting GPT.
>>>>
>>>> What about audio?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> More and more software requires Pulseaudio. I dislike Pulseaudio
>>>> because it's the land of a thousand hidden mutes, but I've never
>>>> thought of it as consuming resources. If you choose Unbuntu, they
>>>> handle
>>>> Pulseaudio pretty well.
>>>>
>>>> Audacity?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you're going to be editing sound files, I'd imagine that's pretty
>>>> resource intensive. I'd sure turn off all the browsers before using
>>>> Audacity.
>>>>
>>>> TeamViewer?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't know, but why would an individual like him need TeamViewer? If
>>>> it's so you can fix him remotely, why not use ssh -Y for a few
>>>> minutes, then set his sshd back to no-video?
>>>>
>>>> Ultimaker Cura?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't know. Depends on how they designed the software. Do they
>>>> malloc() hundreds of megabytes at a time, or do they work within a
>>>> megabyte or so of RAM?
>>>>
>>>> Zoom?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Zoom, Jitsi, BigBlueButton and especially GoToMeeting are extremely
>>>> taxing on the system, and prone to sound dropouts on anemic systems.
>>>> Also, my Daily Driver Desktop (DDD) uses Void Linux, which clicks and
>>>> drops out on all remote meeting software. My finding is that Ubuntu
>>>> sounds much better with such software.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, you need Pulseaudio for Zoom, and my findings are that
>>>> apulse did not enable Zoom.
>>>>
>>>> I've operated Jitsi on 16GB RAM and it worked as well as it could work
>>>> on Void, and perfectly on Ubuntu. I don't know about 6GB. Even more
>>>> unknown, does the Dell have enough CPU for the job? On my older 2
>>>> core, 1 thread per core 16GB DDD and Jitsi ran up CPU usage past 50%,
>>>> and Zoom and GoToMeeting pegged the 100% meter quite often. My new DDD
>>>> has 64GB RAM, but more important for meeting software, its 6core 2
>>>> core per thread CPU never pegs, and is usually below 20% over all for
>>>> Jitsi.
>>>>
>>>> When operating meeting software, I use Chromium set to a Nice value of
>>>> -18, to minimize dropouts as much as possible. The shellscript
>>>> follows:
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> #!/bin/sh
>>>> nice -n 18 chromium --disable-gpu
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> I couldn't understand parts of your post, so I'm going to assume this
>>>> is for your friend. If your friend isn't married to Windows, I think a
>>>> low resource consumption Linux install would work to a pretty good
>>>> degree, always assuming he doesn't abuse his browsers.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, you could set up a 6GB virtual machine with his CPU, his
>>>> hard disk, and test it on the various tasks you described. That should
>>>> give you some further information.
>>>>
>>>> SteveT
>>>>
>>>> Steve Litt
>>>> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the
>>>> Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Ale mailing list
>>>> Ale at ale.org
>>>> https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
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>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Computers amplify human error
>>> Super computers are really cool
>>>
>>
>>
>> SteveT
>>
>> Steve Litt
>> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
>> Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
>> ------------------------------
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
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>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>
>>
> --
> Computers amplify human error
> Super computers are really cool
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