[ale] upgrading desktop

David Jackson deepbsd.ale at gmail.com
Mon Aug 10 16:00:44 EDT 2020 

Oh, forgot one thing about quiet PCs!

A lot of noise can come from old fans whose bearings are wearing out.  Or
even if there's something wrong with the fan.  If you take the cover off
while the fans are running, a lot of times you can see or hear which
fan/fans is/are making too much noise.  Even my old ears can notice a fan
getting old and starting to make a lot of noise before it completely dies.
Replacing it is usually a rather cheap fix.  Noctua fans have the
reputation of being the quietest on the market, although newer companies
(like BeQuiet) are now giving them lots of competition.

On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 3:50 PM David Jackson <deepbsd.ale at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Bob,
>
> >>>For the new desktop I'm leaning towards a cheap graphics card as
> suggested by several along with the ryzen 5 3600 on a B450 motherboard.
> (I'm not interested in gaming.)  Is the cheap graphics card still a
> reasonable choice if I have to record video?
> <<<
>
> So I'm not into video production myself, but I listen to a number of
> TechTubers who are into lots of different video workflows.
>
> Video production is one of those CPU and GPU intensive jobs that can
> benefit massively from better hardware.  But I think we have to get
> specific about the actual jobs when we say "doing video."
>
> I think the CPU/GPU intensive part is transcoding the video from one
> format (like the raw file from your capture device) out to the format (like
> mp4 or whatever) that you would watch it with on your phone or browser or
> something.  Also, if you're editing video, you may have to edit and
> re-render your video multiple times, and each time the rendering time will
> be commensurate with your hardware investment.   I hope someone who
> actually does what you're doing will chime in and correct me where I'm
> wrong.
>
> But the TechTubers I frequently listen to try to answer this question a
> lot, or at least questions that are similar to your question.  So you might
> look at the build lists from some of these TechTubers for their own rigs,
> and you can get an idea of the relative performance versus the price tag,
> and then pick a budget/performance tradeoff that fits for you.
>
> Some of my favorite TechTubers (on YouTube) for hardware are Paul's
> Hardware, Bitwit, JayzTwoCents, LinusTechTips, and many, many others.  Each
> of these has many hundreds of videos and playlists where you could hear
> various arguments about hardware selection optimized for video production
> and gaming.  Paul's Hardware will have many parts lists (called build
> lists) on pcpartpicker.com optimized for gaming and video production, and
> watching some of these will help answer your questions.  Here are his saved
> build lists:
>
>  https://pcpartpicker.com/user/paulshardware/saved/
>
> As I understand it, transcoding video benefits greatly from more cpu
> cores, so I think your ryzen 5 or ryzen 7 (or ryzen 9 if that's affordable)
> will give you an enormous boost from where you are.
>
> As far as the GPU choice, I would put the rx5700 as a very entry-level
> GPU.  If you can spring for a beefier GPU, you'll notice a big
> improvement.  Again, you video producers correct me where I'm wrong.  AMD
> GPUs target the entry level up to the mid-range levels of GPU.  For super
> heavy duty, it's all Nvidia.  But super-heavy is around the $600 and up
> range.
>
> >>>When building a new desktop, what things can/should I do to keep it
> reasonably quiet?
> <<<
>
> This question is pretty frequently asked, so here's what I can share.
> First, my hearing is not the best.  I've had lots of exposure to gunfire,
> explosions and Harleys.  I currently experience tinnitus.  I may not be the
> best person to answer this question.  :-D   But, here are some ideas.
>
> 1) If you use an air cooler for your cpu, you can adjust your fan speeds
> in the bios to quieter settings.  You'll have to experiment with your
> temperatures and see how your settings are working.  But you can adjust
> what is called your "fan curves."  The nicer the motherboard, the more
> customizable and granular your settings will be.
>
> 2) There are cases you can select that are simply quieter than others.
> Some of them will actually have acoustically absorbent panels that dampen
> the sound.  Make sure the case has good air flow though, because burning up
> your CPU or GPU is not worth the noise savings.  Many cases today feature
> large windows so you can see your blinky lights.  The quietest cases will
> have fewer such places sound can get out.  But again, the case *has to*
> breathe.  Temperature is very important.
>
> 3) Some people complain about AIO (all in one) water coolers, but I have
> not had problems with them.  They have worked reliably for at least a year
> or two, and I've not experienced leaks or extra noise (but I'm kinda deaf
> too), and they have cooled my overclocked PCs very nicely.  But again, my
> hearing is... err, you get the idea.
>
> 4) Wendell over at Level1Tech recently (Sept 2018) built a box for Linus
> Torvalds, who is also very sensitive to extra noise.  He apparently likes
> his PCs extremely quiet.
> This might be the link I was thinking of:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvuDrrFHrhQ
>
> Wendell also built a very quiet box for Greg KH recently.  That might be
> the vid I was thinking of:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37RP9I3_TBo
>
> Obviously, these builds are very idealized builds with a large budget, but
> most of the same principles could be applied to building a budget box that
> is still quiet.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 1:31 PM Bob via Ale <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> A couple more questions relating to building a desktop.
>>
>> 1)  My wife is sensitive to noise, and we're often working in the same
>> office at home.  She has mentioned that my current=old desktop is noisy.
>>   Even though I don't notice it unless I think about it, I have to agree.
>>
>> When building a new desktop, what things can/should I do to keep it
>> reasonably quiet?
>>
>> 2)  I have to record several hours of video each week.  I'm using
>> obs-studio, and I think obs-studio has suggested a lower resolution due
>> to the weak cpu.
>>
>> For the new desktop I'm leaning towards a cheap graphics card as
>> suggested by several along with the ryzen 5 3600 on a B450 motherboard.
>> (I'm not interested in gaming.)  Is the cheap graphics card still a
>> reasonable choice if I have to record video?
>>
>> BTW, something along the following is what I'm leaning towards building
>> now:
>>
>> >> I tend to think the most "bang for the buck" system today (in my mind)
>> >> would be a B450 motherboard with a Ryzen 5 3600, 16G RAM at about 3200
>> or
>> >> faster, and I would go for an NVMe M.2 SSD at around 500G.  You can
>> use a
>> >> cheap video card (about $35) and the case and power supply as your
>> budget
>> >> and preference dictates.  Power supplies and cases are a bit more
>> expensive
>> >> these days, thanks to COVID-challenged supplies, but memory, ssd's and
>> CPUs
>> >> are relatively cheap.  This system would cost you about $550-600 or so,
>> >> depending on your choices.  One example:
>> >> https://pcpartpicker.com/user/deepbsd/saved/#view=6tqG3C
>>
>> --Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2020-08-02 10:45 p.m., David Jackson wrote:
>> > I tend to build a lot of systems, so my perspective is influenced by
>> this
>> > bias.  But I'm unclear about your priorities.
>> >
>> > If you were doing something demanding (say rendering videos or doing
>> heavy
>> > computation or competitive gaming or whatever), you would be well
>> beyond a
>> > 3rd gen i5 cpu.  Since 3rd gen Intel level of tech seems to suit you
>> fine,
>> > it seems to me your performance requirements are rather low.  Another
>> thing
>> > I'm curious about is how much change are you willing to tolerate.
>> Would a
>> > lot of added performance be a bad thing or a good thing?
>> >
>> > I think you might be missing how easy it would be to get a *massive*
>> > performance upgrade with a relatively slight effort or cost by upgrading
>> > all your whole architecture.  A LOT has changed since 3rd gen Intel was
>> > current.  For about the cost in difficulty and dollars in upgrading your
>> > 3rd gen architecture, you could probably find a more current Ryzen
>> system
>> > that would give this massive upgrade.   What has changed a lot very
>> > recently is that AMD Ryzen normally beats Intel in terms of performance
>> per
>> > dollar (bang for the buck) nowadays.  (I'm trying to keep it simple
>> here.)
>> > And the surrounding architecture has massively improved as well.
>> Current
>> > gen platforms are much more efficient and performant overall than a 3rd
>> gen
>> > i5 was.
>> >
>> > If you really prefer to "tough it out" on your current architecture, I
>> > would have to infer that your priority has more to do with "optimizing
>> the
>> > last electron out of a potato" as I call it.  There's a certain level of
>> > pride geeks sometimes get over "doing the most with the least"
>> technology.
>> > If that's you, then nevermind.  But it would help to know that "getting
>> the
>> > last ounce of performance out of your potato" is in fact a priority.  If
>> > that's true, there are other layers of complexity that might be of
>> > interest, such as over clocking and water cooling, but cost and
>> complexity
>> > quickly become factors here.  But if that seemed attractive to you, my
>> > guess is your questions would have been very different.
>> >
>> > I tend to think the most "bang for the buck" system today (in my mind)
>> > would be a B450 motherboard with a Ryzen 5 3600, 16G RAM at about 3200
>> or
>> > faster, and I would go for an NVMe M.2 SSD at around 500G.  You can use
>> a
>> > cheap video card (about $35) and the case and power supply as your
>> budget
>> > and preference dictates.  Power supplies and cases are a bit more
>> expensive
>> > these days, thanks to COVID-challenged supplies, but memory, ssd's and
>> CPUs
>> > are relatively cheap.  This system would cost you about $550-600 or so,
>> > depending on your choices.  One example:
>> > https://pcpartpicker.com/user/deepbsd/saved/#view=6tqG3C
>> > I wager this system would make you grin each time you sit down at your
>> PC.
>> > I'd also wager that the "grin factor" would quickly offset the dollar
>> > damage.
>> >
>> > I would imagine your existing system might fetch $100 on ebay, possibly?
>> >
>> > Hope this helps.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 12:16 PM Bob via Ale <ale at ale.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Charles has me thinking about upgrading my 8 year old lenovo desktop.
>> >> I'm thinking of increasing memory and installing an ssd.
>> >>
>> >> I don't know much about hardware, so I'm hoping some of you might give
>> >> me some advice and maybe keep me from doing something stupid.  I'm not
>> a
>> >> gamer, so that might make things simpler.
>> >>
>> >> 1)  Memory.  Currently, there are  two 4 GB ddr3 1600 memory modules in
>> >> the two memory slots.  There is no graphics card in my desktop and the
>> >> integrated graphics uses some of the memory.  I can upgrade to two 8 gb
>> >> ddr3l 1600.  According to crucial.com, the crucial 16gb kit (2 x 8GB)
>> >> ddr3l-1600 udimm are compatible.
>> >>
>> >> I believe my motherboard can use either ddr3 or ddr3l.  Is there an
>> >> advantage of one over the other?
>> >>
>> >> (The power supply unit has been fine, but it's only 280 watts.  I don't
>> >> know if that would affect the above choice or not.)
>> >>
>> >> Microcenter has a variety of brands:  Neo Forza, G. skills ripjaw,
>> >> crucial, ....  Are there brands to avoid?  Are there brands that you'd
>> >> recommend?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 2)  ssd.  This seems more complicated.
>> >>
>> >> There are 4 empty pci express slots---one is x16 and the others x1.  I
>> >> do not believe that the motherboard supports pcie ssd.  The motherboard
>> >> does not have mSATA or m.2 slots.  So pcie ssd seems to be impossible.
>> >> (I don't know what I'd ever use these slots for.)
>> >>
>> >> The chipset on the motherboard only supports SATA at 3.0 gb/s.  There
>> >> are 3 SATA ports and one e-SATA port.  (There has been no update to the
>> >> bios/uefi firmware.)
>> >>
>> >> One SATA port is connected to the optical drive, and the other two SATA
>> >> ports are connected to the two 1TB HDDs Both drives have plenty of free
>> >> space.
>> >>
>> >> I don't know why I get slightly different info for the following.  When
>> >> I execute "sudo hdparm -I /dev/sda | grep SATA", the result is:
>> >>
>> >>          Transport:          Serial, SATA Rev 3.0
>> >>
>> >> but on /dev/sdb, the result is:
>> >>
>> >> Transport:          Serial, SATA 1.0a, SATA II Extensions, SATA Rev
>> 2.5,
>> >> SATA Rev 2.6, SATA Rev 3.0
>> >>
>> >> The e-SATA port is connected to a usm hot-swappable bay where I'm
>> >> supposed to be able to plug in a portable SATA drive.  The connector is
>> >> supposed to be a standard SATA connector.  I have never used this bay
>> so
>> >> far.
>> >>
>> >> It seems like I could either purchase an external SATA ssd and plug it
>> >> into the bay.  I don't know if I would have troubles booting from that
>> >> drive.
>> >>
>> >> OTOH, I could remove one of the HDDs and put the SSD into either
>> >> /dev/sda or /dev/sdb.  Presumably, I could put the HDD that was removed
>> >> into an enclosure allowing it to be placed into the swappable bay on
>> the
>> >> rare occasions that it was needed.
>> >>
>> >> 1)  Does it seem better to remove an HDD and put the ssd into that
>> space
>> >> vs. putting the ssd into the swappable bay?  Does it make a difference
>> >> if the ssd is put into the drive where /dev/sda is or /dev/sdb?
>> >>
>> >> 2)  Any suggestions on how large the ssd should be?
>> >>
>> >> 3)  Are there brands to avoid or brands that you would recommend?
>> >>
>> >> --Bob
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >
>>
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>
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