[ale] for all you systemd haters...

[Alex Carver]

On 2018-02-16 12:48, Solomon Peachy via Ale wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 02:12:33PM -0500, Steve Litt via Ale wrote:
>> Systemd originator and evangelizer in chief Lennart Poettering has
>> never been shy in stating his dislike of Linux, often going so far as
>> to negatively compare Linux to Mac and even Windows. Yeah Windows. And
>> it's clear that systemd makes Linux systems it has been installed on
>> more like Windows, in terms of reduced diy, and increased program to
>> program interdependencies. 
> 
> (If you're referring to what I think you are..)
> 
> Windows Vista introduced seamless shared audio output, capable of 
> switching to different output devices, per-application volume control, 
> even for applications written against the very first WaveOut audio APIs 
> introduced in the Win16 days.  It Just Worked(tm).
> 
> So is it somehow bad to acknowledge that Windows or Macs genuinely did 
> something better and provided a superior user experience, and attempt to 
> address that deficiency in Linux systems?  (With two major audio APIs, 
> three or four incompatible sound servers, and a whole load of 
> buggy-with-not-quite-the-same-quirks audio drivers to wrangle )
> 
> Another example.  Is it somehow bad to acknowlede that Windows had 
> objectively superior multi-desktop-users-logged-in-simultaneously 
> support, and attempt to improve that?
> 
> Meanwhile, I'd caution you against blaming Pottering for "increased 
> program to program interdependencies" as that's a property of all 
> systems and it well predates his birth. You might as well try to blame 
> him for water being wet, for that would make as about much sense.
> 
>> Poettering has several times suggested ignoring and breaking POSIX, an 
>> underpinning of all things UNIXy including Linux, for the last 30 
>> years.
> 
> POSIX and UNIX are not some holy documents beyond reproach, nor do they 
> represent the absolute pinnacle of what can ever be achieved.
> 
> They both have many warts, in design and implementation, and their 
> abstrations break down all the damn time.  Even the creators of both 
> acknoweldge that.
> 
> As an aside, Linus Torvalds often advocates for ignoring or otherwise 
> breaking POSIX.  Or are you seriously going to claim that Torvalds also 
> doesn't know what underpins Linux?
> 
>> Poettering doesn't like Linux and created systemd to make Linux less
>> Linux. A person who likes Linux would therefore not like systemd.
> 
> By that same logic dropping a high output crate motor into my truck to 
> make it more capable means that I don't like my truck, instead of 
> showing that I like it more than is probably healthy.
> 
> Yeah, Pottering hates Linux so much he's spent the past fifteen years 
> improving it.  We should all be so lucky to have folks like him that 
> hate the things we use every day.

Just remember that Pottering was primarily responsible for Pulse Audio
and, although perhaps it's working better now, he pushed it hard
claiming it was ready and it was not leading to a severe hatred for it.
He pushed hard enough that, in his very typical style, was calling out
any distribution that did not install it by default.  Later he
backtracked saying he never claimed it was ready.

I think if systemd had been spearheaded by anyone other than Pottering
it probably would have gotten an improved reputation or at minimum would
have had an opportunity to demonstrate itself and sell the idea on the
merits.  There are plenty of people that improve the things we use but
are not even remotely as sour as Pottering.  For systemd, Pottering's
previous actions with Pulse Audio basically guaranteed that he burned
the bridge before he crossed it.