[ale] Breaking into the field [Inquiry]

Sun Sep 24 21:37:37 EDT 2017

Code Academy is a great way to get the basics of a lot of great languages, definitely worth checking out sometime. You can get quite a bit out of the site for free especially in python, ruby,  JavaScript, HTML, CSS and SQL.

And personally while it's not beginner, learning C gave me a whole new appreciation for how much other languages simplify and do for you and you learn lots of underlying tech. But again, that's a little more than needed for entry level just things you should think about some day. 

Also I don't condone piracy, cough but libgen.io is a good site to find tech books.

⁣Sent from BlueMail 

On Sep 24, 2017, 7:29 PM, at 7:29 PM, Charles Shapiro <hooterpincher at gmail.com> wrote:
>Heh.  My path was different than yours.  Most of my career has been in
>software development, not system administration.  I can't resist
>chiming in
>on programming languages though. Python is a great first language.  For
>a
>development career, you're gonna have to understand Object Oriented
>Programming thoroughly ( object creation/destruction, inheritance,
>composition, access control, polymorphism ). I dunno whether that is
>strictly necessary for sysadmin gigs.  Python has the advantage of
>allowing
>you to write just procedural code before you have to encounter and
>digest
>OOP concepts.  Languages like Java and JavaScript don't allow you that
>luxury. C++ is extremely fun, and you can use your C++ compiler to
>write
>strictly procedural C,  but the language has some gnarly stuff which
>can
>torpedo an unwary or novice programmer.  Plus it's not as commercially
>fashionable as it used to be.
>
>There ain't no substitute for getting your hands dirty in a language.
>Reading code or reading about code won't show you how the compiler ( or
>interpreter ) fails, nor will it help you understand what errors you
>individually are likely to fall into.
>
>Once you've got a thorough grasp of your first programming language and
>built one or more non-trivial projects in it, the next one will be
>significantly easier to pick up.   If you spend enough time working
>with
>software, you'll almost certainly write stuff in a bunch of
>special-purpose
>languages like HTML, JSON, OpenSCAD, R,  Expect, TCL/Tk, Awk, Flex
>(Lex),
>Bison (YACC), PL/pgSQL, TeX,  et cetera. I'm kind of a language magpie,
>and
>I really enjoyed Lua and Forth -- but there are few commercial
>applications
>for those, at least here in the States.  Of course any *real*
>programmer is
>fluent in kvikkalkul and INTERCAL (heh). One good resource for learning
>a
>new language is Project Euler ( https://projecteuler.net/ ).  It has
>lots
>of crunchy fun problems to work on.
>
>A lot of sysadmin work from my understanding involves databases.  For
>any
>kind of development job, knowing at least enough SQL ("Structured Query
>Language") to be dangerous is essential.  SQL is way different from
>procedural languages like Python.  Install PostGRES on one of your
>Linux
>boxes, grab an on-line tutorial or an O'Reilly book, and spend an
>afternoon
>or two futzing around with it.  You'll be very glad you did. Extra
>points
>for sysadminning if you learn how privilege works (and doesn't).
>
>Good luck.  I was a Classical Languages major in college, but I
>graduated
>in 1980.  I think I'd have a much tougher time breaking in to the field
>these days.
>
>-- CHS
>
>On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Antony Natale <antonynatale at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> My first steps were similar, I studied for A+ then did Network+,
>Security+
>> and Linux+. I took them hoping to get a foot in the door without
>experience
>> but did not expect much more then entry level as certs dont make you
>a pro,
>> that's for sure. I wanted to show that i was willing to work hard to
>learn.
>> Getting comfortable with CentOS is a good idea too, we use RHEL
>exclusively
>> at my job.
>>
>> I agree with Chuck that learning languages like Python, or Ruby, or
>if
>> you're braver than me Perl is useful and adds value in your career
>but
>> first I would get comfortable with Bash and shell scripting. Being
>able to
>> write little loops on demand to hit multiple servers can mean big on
>an
>> important outage call.
>>
>> Also like Chuck said start getting familiar with the new hot things
>like
>> puppet, chef, devops culture and its underlying toolset, but be sure
>you
>> know the basics first otherwise thats all going to be confusing.
>>
>> Sent from BlueMail <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=10698>
>> On Sep 24, 2017, at 4:46 PM, Arie vW <willigen.van.a at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you all for the input! What I have surmised is that I need to
>>> continue in my current track and keep an eye open for any and all
>>> opportunities. The various meetups have been invaluable and it's
>nice to
>>> hear that my little home lab setup is beneficial. My next step I
>think is
>>> installing CentOS (using KVM) and learning my way around the
>platform. Up
>>> until now it's been all Debian based. How much emphasis should I put
>on
>>> learning a programming language? I've been dabbling with Python for
>years
>>> but it's been kinda out on the back burner. Any other must-knows for
>the IT
>>> field in general? I'm currently studying for the CompTIA A+ cert
>just to
>>> showcase that despite no degree, I do have a fundamental
>understanding of
>>> computers. At some point I would like to extend my certification
>list to
>>> include the LPIC cert but probably not until I can better afford it.
>Thanks
>>> again for all of the responses! They give me hope that I was
>beginning to
>>> lose.
>>>
>>> Arie
>>>
>>> On Sep 23, 2017 10:49 PM, "Chuck Payne" <terrorpup at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I started out at a help desk, some 27 years ago. The one thing that
>>>> helped me is hard work, never saying no, keeping an open mind, and
>pushing
>>>> myself to keep learning.
>>>>
>>>> The only regret I have I never learn a program language, so if you
>can't
>>>> join on of the free online course.
>>>>
>>>> I would as well recommend coming to the meetings, asking questions
>here
>>>> on the mailing list. A lot of the greybeards know a thing or too. I
>don't
>>>> mind helping, feel free to ask question. Don't get stuck with one
>distro,
>>>> many people install Ubuntu, but the market is more geared more
>toward Red
>>>> Hat so, install CentOS or Fedora. Even better, Arch Linux because
>they have
>>>> a wiki that is the best to learn really thing. If you really want
>to learn,
>>>> try Slackware.
>>>>
>>>> Devops is the hot thing, so try to read up on Puppet, Chef, Salt
>Stack
>>>> or Ansible. Free IT Athens rebuild old PC with Linux on, see if
>there is
>>>> something in your community you can do some free IT work. Volunteer
>work
>>>> counts as much a paid job. My first job was an Interm at TV station
>for two
>>>> years, with no pay, but I learned so much.
>>>>
>>>> You can set up a small home network on the cheap. For $100 bucks
>you can
>>>> buy like 3 or 4 Pi and setup file server, media server, and
>workstations.
>>>> You don't need expensive hardward to learn, and labs are so great,
>if you
>>>> have a laptop install VirtualBox it's free an a great to run other
>>>> os without having to buying equipment.
>>>>
>>>> Amazon use to let you have a free account, it's a great way to
>learn
>>>> AWS, which is another hot skill to have.
>>>>
>>>> Keep notes, Google is great, but if you are working on a system
>with no
>>>> internet access, notes are great to help, no one going to look down
>on you
>>>> for having them, they are more like to look down on you for not
>having
>>>> notes.
>>>>
>>>> Remember this, there are no stupid questions, so don't be afraid to
>ask.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 10:22 PM, Antony Natale
><antonynatale at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As someone who is pretty new to the field I can only offer what I
>did
>>>>> but frankly I feel my success is equal parts hard work and luck. I
>was
>>>>> working in retail for years, mostly in print  when I decided I was
>going to
>>>>> pursue my new found passion. I had worked on getting some
>certifications to
>>>>> try and get some entry level help desk work being my only
>experience was
>>>>> personal, not work related. After a year of applying I got
>nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> A year later I decided to go back to school for an IT degree and
>>>>> started applying again and got lucky and nailed a great desktop
>support job
>>>>> for an insurance company. Maybe it was the promise of a degree or
>>>>> coincidence, who knows. Only complaint was there was zero linux.
>So I
>>>>> focused on learning all I could there, and outside of work learned
>all I
>>>>> could about linux through reading, VM labs, Linux academy, just
>doing all I
>>>>> can.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, thanks to the ALE, a job posting came for a junior admin
>>>>> position saying they would take entry level. I didn't expect to
>get it but
>>>>> I did and I think its only because I could get through 50 minutes
>of
>>>>> various Linux related grilling and show how passionate I was about
>the job.
>>>>>
>>>>> So my suggestion is do all you can on your own, setup labs and
>vms, etc
>>>>> and shoot for the entry level jobs, and be ready to commit some
>time to
>>>>> learn because in the end my life is so much better for it. Thanks
>for
>>>>> getting me the job ALE!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for the novel
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from BlueMail <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=10698>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Ale mailing list
>>>>> Ale at ale.org
>>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Terror PUP a.k.a
>>>> Chuck "PUP" Payne
>>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>> Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux.
>>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>> openSUSE -- Terrorpup
>>>> openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member
>>>> skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup
>>>> freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein
>>>> Register Linux Userid: 155363
>>>>
>>>> Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD,  an app you
>want
>>>> to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give
>SUSE
>>>> Studio a try.
>>>>
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>
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