[ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!
Beddingfield, Allen
allen at ua.edu
Thu Apr 14 16:07:02 EDT 2016
The fan noise on these is going to be an issue. Think something like the sound level of a small window unit air conditioner.
Allen B.
--
Allen Beddingfield
Systems Engineer
Office of Information Technology
The University of Alabama
Office 205-348-2251
allen at ua.edu
________________________________________
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Alex Carver [agcarver+ale at acarver.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 3:02 PM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: Re: [ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!
What interests me about these servers is the dual NIC. I have the
similar thought about the fans as Scott because one of these would be
perfect as my firewall/gateway/NAT box. I was otherwise looking at a
fanless dual-NIC Intel NUC box for the same purpose.
On 2016-04-14 12:26, Karenga Smith wrote:
> Wow interesting I may have to consider getting one myself!
> Thanks
>
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
> <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On the whole, I agree with all of what was said. Server gear is designed to
> RUN FOREVER and desktop gear is designed to SELL IN THE MILLIONS. Totally
> different engineering viewpoints.
>
> For the beginner Linux newbie, I would argue the server is the hardware to
> learn on for the aspiring professional. That said, any decent machine will
> provide expertise in Linux skilz :-)
>
> Buying a used server for $200 beats the used desktop for the same price from
> a professional standpoint in most cases. Unless the plan is to do big
> graphic processing for artists doing 3D design, desktops are generally
> disposable crap hardware. The server gear _is_ more costly not just because
> of quantity price issues but because of engineered robustness.
>
> Dual power supplies don't pull much more power that a single one. The total
> load is split between the two plus a tiny fraction for monitoring and
> inefficiency losses.
>
> The power used by servers is what ever load is required of them. The Intel
> systems will use more power per cpu flop than the Opteron ones. All can
> throttle back clock speed to cut power when unused.
>
> Fan noise on 1U machines is a problem. Desktops have huge fans and can turn
> slower to move the same amount of air and thus less noise.
>
> IPMI ports should NEVER be wired up to touch LAN or certainly not Internet
> networks. Some Dells have a shared ILO/nic which kills using one nic for
> much of anything.
>
> But ipmi is really cool!
>
> On Apr 14, 2016 7:27 AM, "DJ-Pfulio" <djpfulio at jdpfu.com
> <mailto:djpfulio at jdpfu.com>> wrote:
>
> "Server" hardware has many downsides.
> * Power use - often these things have redundant PSUs; Server power use
> has been
> reduced greatly, but is still higher than desktops (for good reason).
> * Heat - more power become more heat. Think about the July/August
> electric bill.
> * Noise - ever been inside a data center? Noise isn't **any** consideration.
> * Higher cost of upgrades/replacement parts, usually.
>
> A few pluses:
> * Huge amount of RAM / ECC RAM
> * Server-class CPUs
> * Rack mounting (may not be a plus)
>
> But Jim is right. Sometimes there are things that only server machines have
> which are worth having hands-on experience with - IPMI for example. How
> do lock
> that down, since almost all IPMI has huge security issues.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface
>
> Some of the Core i7 and multi-core AMD desktop CPUs are really
> impressive, so
> getting a "server" CPU isn't that important for a home user. Of course, they
> will use lots of power too, when a 53W system might be all that is required.
>
> ECC RAM - if you run ZFS, get ECC RAM. Lots of it. Some desktop MBs
> support ECC
> and I have a hard time thinking of what someone at home would do with
> 32G of RAM
> inside a system. Met a guy with 96G of RAM in his box, but he was running
> Windows. From what he described, sounded like 8G of RAM would have been
> overkill
> to me. So he was stuck with this server-class box, 5+ yr old CPUs and
> 96G of
> RAM that a new Core i7 would have blown away for $1K total system cost.
>
> The point is that home server hardware to learn on isn't bad when it is
> cheap,
> but if you spend $4k+ on it, you'll find that it is like an albatross
> following
> you around for years.
>
> It is noisy and sucks 2x-4x more power than a desktop system.
>
>
> On 04/13/2016 11:23 PM, Scott M. Jones wrote:
> > Does it have a loud fan? That might be the down side...
> >
> > On Apr 12, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
> <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>
> > <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >
> >> I don't push hardware unless it's mine or I'm just drooling over it.
> >>
> >> However....
> >>
> >> http://ebay.to/1VSdviy
> >>
> >> That's a bitly link to an ebay listing for several Dell 1U systems.
> They have
> >> the basics of everything to get jumping on Linux from power
> management to
> >> virtualization all for $213 (including shipping). These are
> reliable, solid
> >> machines that are out of date for current commercial use (DDR2 RAM
> is far more
> >> costly that DDR3 per GB) but perfect for someone who wants
> server-class gear
> >> at home to learn on.
> >>
> >> I usually get supermicro but they all have odd quirks that make them
> a pain.
> >> New ones are a great deal on that price/power/pain curve. Dell is
> over priced
> >> when new. IBM is stupidly over priced new (and used!).
> >>
> >> Just my $0.02
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