[ale] OT - Replacement Gate Remote

[Alex Carver]

On 2015-05-21 10:15, Lightner, Jeff wrote:
> Robbers don't have to be too technically savvy.  
> 
> I recall a case a few years back where there was a rash of car break ins at night where initially they thought nothing had been taken.
> 
> A few days later during the day multiple houses were burgled and it turned out the night break ins had been specifically to steal the garage remotes many people kept in their cars.   During the day while the victims were at work the robbers simply used the stolen remotes to gain access because many people don't lock the door between their garage and the main house like they ought to do.

No, they usually aren't very bright in the first place.  But for the
incident in question (a universal remote that opened all the doors in a
neighborhood), it did require some skill (or a friend with skill and
questionable morals) to find the information and gather up all the
components necessary to build the remote.  Pre-Internet information
spelunking.

> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Alex Carver
> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 11:00 AM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Subject: Re: [ale] OT - Replacement Gate Remote
> 
> I'll have to look them up again but I do recall a report about a small cluster of robberies many years ago where the burglars had used a programmable remote to cycle through codes until a garage opened.  It was rare because the burglar had to have some skill at the time to build the remote (before widespread Internet access where you could buy it premade from China).
> 
> There was also an issue in one neighborhood near a military base (I think Navy or Air Force) where the radar system would open all the doors.
> 
> I don't deny the profit motive in there, too, of course. :)  But they're as risk averse as they are profit driven so it's a win for them all the way around.  I actually have a tiny fob that I use for other projects which uses the same chip as old door remotes.  It's just got a single chip (need to look up the number) which has a dozen pins for programming an address and then 1-4 pins for activating the transmitter.  Runs at
> 433 MHz like most of these remotes.  I've also got a wireless motion sensor alarm (think a store entry chime) that does exactly the same thing, even the same chip.
> 
> On 2015-05-21 07:45, Lightner, Jeff wrote:
>> In the article I cited they specifically mentioned the "burglar" "myth" and said no one could provide even one example of where it had ever happened.   (In fact they say Skylink suggested the real reason Chamberlain made multi code remotes was because low flying planes were accidentally opening garage doors - this doesn't happen when there are 2 codes being sent simply because the plane wouldn't be close enough to garage long enough for the second code to get there.)
>>
>> I'd be interested to know if you are aware of any actual case law or links that specifically say manufacturers stopped making cloning remotes due to liability.   
>>
>> However, at this point I know far more about remotes than I ever 
>> really wanted to.  :-)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of 
>> Alex Carver
>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 10:23 AM
>> To: ale at ale.org
>> Subject: Re: [ale] OT - Replacement Gate Remote
>>
>> The "stand by and clone someone" feature is mainly why they are no longer available.  It wasn't even really the DMCA issues, it was liability.  If the opener was easy to clone from any reasonable distance then people could have their homes or businesses broken into by others.
>>  Early remotes were single-code devices but those proved very easy to hack (one chip and not many codes to try).  The later ones have a base code and a "randomized" code (it's actually a revolving fixed series).
>> Still can be hacked but it's a little less trivial because the revolving series must be determined which takes several samples of data.
>>
>> I've been working on my own using key crypto just as described (but not
>> the bluetooth part). :)    Going to try it with a door lock first.
>>