[ale] Chinese government recommendation - Linux

Mon May 19 11:03:34 EDT 2014

But in other hand we have the same application across the different OS.
Browser, Word processor, Spreadsheet and etc. My Documents / My pictures /
My Videos / My music is even adopted in most major Linux desktops. How hard
can it be for the regular Desktop user?

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Lightner, Jeff
<JLightner at dsservices.com>wrote:

>  Uh no.
>
>
>
> My point was that it is the end users that are the problem.   Saying “a
> desktop is a desktop” is all well and good but the reason most
> organizations delayed upgrading from XP to Windows 7 was because even
> changes in Windows desktops are painful to roll out to end users.  Telling
> them they have to go from Windows to Linux (and change many of the
> underlying tools such as the office suite) would be even more painful.  Not
> because it is technically difficult but because people are resistant to
> change AND because many people don’t really “understand” what is happening
> when they do something.
>
>
>
> My discussion of Admins was because we (UNIX/Linux admins at least) are
> more likely to embrace change if for no other reason than it is “cool” to
> learn new things.   Having said that however, I have met a fair number of
> admins that didn’t want to be bothered with learning the Solaris or HP-UX
> way if they started on AIX or vice-versa.   In Windows admin land MS has
> been weaning them off of GUIs for a while now and I’ve talked to both the
> kind of MS Admin that rails against this and the type that realizes how
> much more power they have with command line tools.    In some shops the MS
> Admins are the ones who end up working on the first Linux systems.
>
>
>
> That doesn’t mean you can’t have your preferences (I loved HP-UX) but you
> do need to learn the differences.   For me it has all been fairly easy
> because I started on DOS went to Novell then to UNIX and Xenix and finally
> Linux so I’ve seen the progression.    The key is getting the basic
> tools/concepts and transferring your knowledge to the new platform then
> building on that with the esoteric behaviors unique to each.   I was first
> introduced to command line in DOS and to “users” and “groups” in Novell.
> Both of those experiences lent themselves very well to learning UNIX where
> essentially I just had to make myself a cheat sheet of the different
> command names for the same functions.  (type = cat, dir = ls, copy = cp,
> rename = mv etc…).
>
>
>
> *From:* ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] *On Behalf Of *Jim
> Kinney
> *Sent:* Monday, May 19, 2014 10:30 AM
> *To:* Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
>
> *Subject:* Re: [ale] Chinese government recommendation - Linux
>
>
>
> Hmm. Interesting point. Admins.
>
> From a user perspective, a desktop is a desktop is a desktop. Plenty of
> Windows people have switch to Mac and been productive is a short learning
> cycle. That suggests a new desktop _can_ be learned.
>
> But admins are another group altogether.
>
> How things are done behind the scenes is really, REALLY different between
> windows, Linux and Mac (and Solaris/Oracle, and between Linux variants,
> etc). The tools that exist to support admins for large scale deployments
> are radically different between the systems as the philosophy is extremely
> radically different between the systems.
>
> So I would put forward that the wholesale adoption of Linux will depend on
> the retraining of the existing admins so they are willing to tell upstream
> "sure, Linux will be useful here".
>
> Ha! Then maybe the Mac admins can work somewhere other than retail!   8D
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Lightner, Jeff <JLightner at dsservices.com>
> wrote:
>
> While I’d like to think Windows is on the way out I will say that this
> isn’t the first time its demise has been predicted.   Unfortunately there
> are way too many people (organizations especially) that are not willing to
> pull the plug because of the learning curve.   I know you’ll all say that
> Linux is easier etc… but the fact is MOST users don’t really understand
> computers and making them learn ANYTHING new is quite difficult.   (If you
> don’t believe that find out how long it took most organizations to get
> their executives off a blackberry products – if they have.)
>
>
>
> I recall just a few years back where China and other governments were
> planning on making their own Linux distros but never saw much traction on
> that.
>
>
>
> It’s funny how things go.  M$’ stated reasoning for creating NT was to
> take over the UNIX market.  Instead they killed off Novell.   Linux on the
> other hand has made deep inroads into the former UNIX markets mainly
> because the admins that do one can do the other.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] *On Behalf Of *Jim
> Kinney
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:11 AM
> *To:* Atlanta User Group (E-mail)
> *Subject:* Re: [ale] Chinese government recommendation - Linux
>
>
>
> Doc format is often required when there will be editing done. Often
> recruiters will strip contact data or even change layout. Internally, some
> places will add notes to résumés.
>
> On May 17, 2014 11:06 PM, "Boris Borisov" <bugyatl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I cannot count how many times is been required to send resume in .DOC
> format when I'm applying for IT positions. And this are people from
> IT. For government folk will take a lot more.
>
> On 5/18/14, Jay Lozier <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Requiring open formats is actually OS agnostic but any movement in that
> > direction makes FOSS applications competitive. There was a UK proposal to
> > require ODF formats for all government documents a few months ago. There
> was
> > some discussion about this on the LO user list and the consensus was it
> > would hurt MS as it evens the playing field for all office suites Many
> > assumed if adopted that other vendors would be able to add ODF support
> > rather easily and FOSS alternatives (LO, AOO, and Calligra) would be
> > competing on merits. It would help Linux because the FOSS office suites
> on
> > Linux all use ODF as their native format However, on the LO user list, I
> > think the consensus was users would be more likely to switch suites
> rather
> > than OSes if the proposal was adopted.
> >
> > On 05/17/2014 07:22 PM, Wolf Halton wrote:
> >>
> >> If several governments start requiring open formats, that will help too.
> >> Windows is on a downward trajectory.  They cannot decide if they want to
> >> stay on the desktop/laptop horse or fully commit to the phone/tablet
> >> horse, so they are about to find themselves on their collective butts
> >> between the ruts of the trails of those 2 horses, running away.
> >>
> >> Wolf Halton
> >>
> >> --
> >> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com
> >> Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Jay Lozier <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I saw a link to this article on Softpedia (from Ostatic):
> >>>
> >>>
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Chinese-Government-Says-on-TV-that-Windows-XP-Users-Must-Choose-Linux-441889.shtml
> >>>
> >>> The article noted the Chinese government is beginning to push Chinese
> XP
> >>> users to consider adopting Linux. It did note that many user preferred
> >>> applications do not have a Linux version currently available. But often
> >>> there are FOSS equivalents available that are suitable for many users.
> It
> >>> also noted that Russia and Germany are actively pursuing Linux.
> >>>
> >>> My take is this is probably what Linux needs to get market traction; a
> >>> very large market to switch to Linux. If the Chinese convert to mostly
> >>> Linux hardware vendors and commercial software vendors will need to
> >>> support Linux or abandon the Chinese market. Other than the
> unmentionable
> >>> I believe most vendors will follow market trends. If the trends is
> >>> towards Linux, they will follow.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jay Lozier
> >>> jslozier at gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Jay Lozier
> > jslozier at gmail.com
>
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> --
>
> --
> James P. Kinney III
>
> Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain
> at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail.
> It won't fatten the dog.
> - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain
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