[ale] [OT] Liberties

[leam hall]

Sean,

I agree with the idea, but not the technicalities. If you send something
over public wire/wireless, it can be read by anyone without warrant. If you
put your social security card in the local paper then no one is prohibited
from reading and storing it.

On the other hand, if you take a picture on your cell phone and do not
e-mail it, then it is protected as a personal effect. Once you send it,
however, it is public record.

Leam


On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Sean Kilpatrick <kilpatms at gmail.com>wrote:

> **
>
> I must disagree.
>
> Facebook: Yes. That clearly is a public venue.
>
> Email: NO! The government has no more right to read my email without a
> specific warrant than it does to read my snail mail.
>
> Let me quote the Fourth Amendment:
>
> "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers,
> and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be
> violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported
> by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be
> searched, and the persons or things to be siezed."
>
> Your smart phone is the same as my briefcase. In the 21st century,
> electronic records are most assuredly "papers and effects." This paragraph
> of the U.S. Constitution requires that the government at any level must
> get a warrant before searching my electronic communications.
>
> How does the government get evidence on suspected criminals: Easy! Its
> agents get a warrant, which must be specific as to the kinds of things
> being searched for. The constitution could not be clearer: no warrant = no
> search nor seizure.
>
> For further commentary on this issue (continuous surveilence by the
> government on the entire population), please reread Huxley's "Brave New
> World."
>
> Sean
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:02:16 pm leam hall wrote:
>
> > While I agree that the rule of law should be upheld, if you send an
>
> > unencrypted e-mail or post on Facebook you have given every agency in
>
> > the world permission to delve into your every affair. If you think
>
> > "the internet" is the issue, you know little about your insurance
>
> > company or those rewards programs. Or Amazon. Or Google. PJ's feeling
>
> > of violation is either misleading or very naive.
>
> >
>
> > How do you expect terrorists or criminals to be brought to justice
>
> > absent evidence? It's easy to assume the stupid criminals will be
>
> > caught on videocam but the dangerous ones also need to be tracked. How
>
> > do you propose doing that? How do you get evidence on them?
>
> >
>
> > Which is worse, to let your public documents be read or have a rapist
>
> > or killer brought to justice?
>
> >
>
> > Leam
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>
>


-- 
Mind on a Mission <http://leamhall.blogspot.com/>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20130821/a8c50475/attachment.html>