No subject
Tue Nov 13 08:16:38 EST 2012
Windows people have switch to Mac and been productive is a short learning
cycle. That suggests a new desktop _can_ be learned.
But admins are another group altogether.
How things are done behind the scenes is really, REALLY different between
windows, Linux and Mac (and Solaris/Oracle, and between Linux variants,
etc). The tools that exist to support admins for large scale deployments
are radically different between the systems as the philosophy is extremely
radically different between the systems.
So I would put forward that the wholesale adoption of Linux will depend on
the retraining of the existing admins so they are willing to tell upstream
"sure, Linux will be useful here".
Ha! Then maybe the Mac admins can work somewhere other than retail! 8D
On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Lightner, Jeff <JLightner at dsservices.com>w=
rote:
> While I=E2=80=99d like to think Windows is on the way out I will say th=
at this
> isn=E2=80=99t the first time its demise has been predicted. Unfortunate=
ly there
> are way too many people (organizations especially) that are not willing t=
o
> pull the plug because of the learning curve. I know you=E2=80=99ll all =
say that
> Linux is easier etc=E2=80=A6 but the fact is MOST users don=E2=80=99t rea=
lly understand
> computers and making them learn ANYTHING new is quite difficult. (If yo=
u
> don=E2=80=99t believe that find out how long it took most organizations t=
o get
> their executives off a blackberry products =E2=80=93 if they have.)
>
>
>
> I recall just a few years back where China and other governments were
> planning on making their own Linux distros but never saw much traction on
> that.
>
>
>
> It=E2=80=99s funny how things go. M$=E2=80=99 stated reasoning for creat=
ing NT was to
> take over the UNIX market. Instead they killed off Novell. Linux on th=
e
> other hand has made deep inroads into the former UNIX markets mainly
> because the admins that do one can do the other.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] *On Behalf Of *J=
im
> Kinney
> *Sent:* Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:11 AM
> *To:* Atlanta User Group (E-mail)
> *Subject:* Re: [ale] Chinese government recommendation - Linux
>
>
>
> Doc format is often required when there will be editing done. Often
> recruiters will strip contact data or even change layout. Internally, som=
e
> places will add notes to r=C3=A9sum=C3=A9s.
>
> On May 17, 2014 11:06 PM, "Boris Borisov" <bugyatl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I cannot count how many times is been required to send resume in .DOC
> format when I'm applying for IT positions. And this are people from
> IT. For government folk will take a lot more.
>
> On 5/18/14, Jay Lozier <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Requiring open formats is actually OS agnostic but any movement in that
> > direction makes FOSS applications competitive. There was a UK proposal =
to
> > require ODF formats for all government documents a few months ago. Ther=
e
> was
> > some discussion about this on the LO user list and the consensus was it
> > would hurt MS as it evens the playing field for all office suites Many
> > assumed if adopted that other vendors would be able to add ODF support
> > rather easily and FOSS alternatives (LO, AOO, and Calligra) would be
> > competing on merits. It would help Linux because the FOSS office suites
> on
> > Linux all use ODF as their native format However, on the LO user list, =
I
> > think the consensus was users would be more likely to switch suites
> rather
> > than OSes if the proposal was adopted.
> >
> > On 05/17/2014 07:22 PM, Wolf Halton wrote:
> >>
> >> If several governments start requiring open formats, that will help to=
o.
> >> Windows is on a downward trajectory. They cannot decide if they want =
to
> >> stay on the desktop/laptop horse or fully commit to the phone/tablet
> >> horse, so they are about to find themselves on their collective butts
> >> between the ruts of the trails of those 2 horses, running away.
> >>
> >> Wolf Halton
> >>
> >> --
> >> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com
> >> Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Jay Lozier <jslozier at gmail.com> wrote=
:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I saw a link to this article on Softpedia (from Ostatic):
> >>>
> >>>
> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Chinese-Government-Says-on-TV-that-Windows=
-XP-Users-Must-Choose-Linux-441889.shtml
> >>>
> >>> The article noted the Chinese government is beginning to push Chinese
> XP
> >>> users to consider adopting Linux. It did note that many user preferre=
d
> >>> applications do not have a Linux version currently available. But oft=
en
> >>> there are FOSS equivalents available that are suitable for many users=
.
> It
> >>> also noted that Russia and Germany are actively pursuing Linux.
> >>>
> >>> My take is this is probably what Linux needs to get market traction; =
a
> >>> very large market to switch to Linux. If the Chinese convert to mostl=
y
> >>> Linux hardware vendors and commercial software vendors will need to
> >>> support Linux or abandon the Chinese market. Other than the
> unmentionable
> >>> I believe most vendors will follow market trends. If the trends is
> >>> towards Linux, they will follow.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Jay Lozier
> >>> jslozier at gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> >>> Ale mailing list
> >>> Ale at ale.org
> >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ale mailing list
> >> Ale at ale.org
> >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jay Lozier
> > jslozier at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>
> Athena=C2=AE, Created for the Cause=E2=84=A2
>
> Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer
>
> ____________________________________________________
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidentia=
l
> information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you
> are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or
> use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful=
.
> If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply
> immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, an=
d
> delete it. Thank you.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>
>
--=20
--=20
James P. Kinney III
Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain
at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail.
It won't fatten the dog.
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain
*http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
<http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/>*
--20cf300fb2d1cede9f04f9c1914a
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Hmm. Interesting point. Admins.<b=
r><br></div>From a user perspective, a desktop is a desktop is a desktop. P=
lenty of Windows people have switch to Mac and been productive is a short l=
earning cycle. That suggests a new desktop _can_ be learned.<br>
<br></div>But admins are another group altogether.<br><br></div>How things =
are done behind the scenes is really, REALLY different between windows, Lin=
ux and Mac (and Solaris/Oracle, and between Linux variants, etc). The tools=
that exist to support admins for large scale deployments are radically dif=
ferent between the systems as the philosophy is extremely radically differe=
nt between the systems.<br>
<br></div>So I would put forward that the wholesale adoption of Linux will =
depend on the retraining of the existing admins so they are willing to tell=
upstream "sure, Linux will be useful here". <br><br></div>Ha! Th=
en maybe the Mac admins can work somewhere other than retail! =C2=A0 8D<br>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon,=
May 19, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Lightner, Jeff <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"m=
ailto:JLightner at dsservices.com" target=3D"_blank">JLightner at dsservices.com<=
/a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US">
<p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">While I=E2=80=99d like to=
think Windows is on the way out I will say that this isn=E2=80=99t the fir=
st time its demise has been predicted.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unfortunately there are =
way too
many people (organizations especially) that are not willing to pull the pl=
ug because of the learning curve.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I know you=E2=80=99ll all say=
that Linux is easier etc=E2=80=A6 but the fact is MOST users don=E2=80=99t=
really understand computers and making them learn ANYTHING new is
quite difficult.=C2=A0=C2=A0 (If you don=E2=80=99t believe that find out h=
ow long it took most organizations to get their executives off a blackberry=
products =E2=80=93 if they have.)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I recall just a few years=
back where China and other governments were planning on making their own L=
inux distros but never saw much traction on that.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It=E2=80=99s funny how th=
ings go.=C2=A0 M$=E2=80=99 stated reasoning for creating NT was to take ove=
r the UNIX market.=C2=A0 Instead they killed off Novell.=C2=A0=C2=A0 Linux =
on the other hand
has made deep inroads into the former UNIX markets mainly because the admi=
ns that do one can do the other.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href=
=3D"mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org" target=3D"_blank">ale-bounces at ale.org</a> [=
mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org" target=3D"_blank">ale-bounces=
@ale.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Kinney<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 18, 2014 8:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Atlanta User Group (E-mail)<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ale] Chinese government recommendation - Linux<u></u><=
u></u></span></p><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p>Doc format is often required when there will be editing done. Often recr=
uiters will strip contact data or even change layout. Internally, some plac=
es will add notes to r=C3=A9sum=C3=A9s.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On May 17, 2014 11:06 PM, "Boris Borisov" =
<<a href=3D"mailto:bugyatl at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">bugyatl at gmail.co=
m</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I cannot count how many times is been required to se=
nd resume in .DOC<br>
format when I'm applying for IT positions. And this are people from<br>
IT. For government folk will take a lot more.<br>
<br>
On 5/18/14, Jay Lozier <<a href=3D"mailto:jslozier at gmail.com" target=3D"=
_blank">jslozier at gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Requiring open formats is actually OS agnostic but any movement in tha=
t<br>
> direction makes FOSS applications competitive. There was a UK proposal=
to<br>
> require ODF formats for all government documents a few months ago. The=
re was<br>
> some discussion about this on the LO user list and the consensus was i=
t<br>
> would hurt MS as it evens the playing field for all office suites Many=
<br>
> assumed if adopted that other vendors would be able to add ODF support=
<br>
> rather easily and FOSS alternatives (LO, AOO, and Calligra) would be<b=
r>
> competing on merits. It would help Linux because the FOSS office suite=
s on<br>
> Linux all use ODF as their native format However, on the LO user list,=
I<br>
> think the consensus was users would be more likely to switch suites ra=
ther<br>
> than OSes if the proposal was adopted.<br>
><br>
> On 05/17/2014 07:22 PM, Wolf Halton wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> If several governments start requiring open formats, that will hel=
p too.<br>
>> Windows is on a downward trajectory.=C2=A0 They cannot decide if t=
hey want to<br>
>> stay on the desktop/laptop horse or fully commit to the phone/tabl=
et<br>
>> horse, so they are about to find themselves on their collective bu=
tts<br>
>> between the ruts of the trails of those 2 horses, running away.<br=
>
>><br>
>> Wolf Halton<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - <a href=3D"http://sourcefreedom.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">
http://sourcefreedom.com</a><br>
>> Security in the Cloud - <a href=3D"http://AtlantaCloudTech.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">
http://AtlantaCloudTech.com</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 8:47 PM, Jay Lozier <<a href=3D"mailto:=
jslozier at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jslozier at gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hi,<br>
>>><br>
>>> I saw a link to this article on Softpedia (from Ostatic):<br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href=3D"http://news.softpedia.com/news/Chinese-Government-S=
ays-on-TV-that-Windows-XP-Users-Must-Choose-Linux-441889.shtml" target=3D"_=
blank">
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Chinese-Government-Says-on-TV-that-Windows-X=
P-Users-Must-Choose-Linux-441889.shtml</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> The article noted the Chinese government is beginning to push =
Chinese XP<br>
>>> users to consider adopting Linux. It did note that many user p=
referred<br>
>>> applications do not have a Linux version currently available. =
But often<br>
>>> there are FOSS equivalents available that are suitable for man=
y users. It<br>
>>> also noted that Russia and Germany are actively pursuing Linux=
.<br>
>>><br>
>>> My take is this is probably what Linux needs to get market tra=
ction; a<br>
>>> very large market to switch to Linux. If the Chinese convert t=
o mostly<br>
>>> Linux hardware vendors and commercial software vendors will ne=
ed to<br>
>>> support Linux or abandon the Chinese market. Other than the un=
mentionable<br>
>>> I believe most vendors will follow market trends. If the trend=
s is<br>
>>> towards Linux, they will follow.<br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Jay Lozier<br>
>>> <a href=3D"mailto:jslozier at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jslozi=
er at gmail.com</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> </p>
</div>
</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p></p>
<p>=C2=A0</p>
<p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
>>> Ale mailing list<br>
>>> <a href=3D"mailto:Ale at ale.org" target=3D"_blank">Ale at ale.org</=
a><br>
>>> <a href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target=3D=
"_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
>>> <a href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Ale mailing list<br>
>> <a href=3D"mailto:Ale at ale.org" target=3D"_blank">Ale at ale.org</a><b=
r>
>> <a href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
>> <a href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Jay Lozier<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:jslozier at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jslozier at gmail=
.com</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ale mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Ale at ale.org" target=3D"_blank">Ale at ale.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target=3D"_blank">http=
://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target=3D"_blank">http://m=
ail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p></p>
</div></div><p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"fuchsia"><font style=3D"=
FONT-FAMILY:Arial;FONT-SIZE:10pt">Athena<font size=3D"1">=C2=AE</font>, Cre=
ated for the Cause</font><font size=3D"1">=E2=84=A2
</font></font></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial">Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Can=
cer</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Arial">___________________________________________________=
_</font></p>
<p><span style=3D"FONT-FAMILY:Arial;FONT-SIZE:10pt"><font color=3D"#7d7d7d"=
>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential=
information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s).
If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distributi=
on, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unl=
awful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please r=
eply immediately to the sender that
you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you.<br>
</font></span></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Ale mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Ale at ale.org">Ale at ale.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target=3D"_blank">http=
://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target=3D"_blank">http://m=
ail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr">--=
<br>James P. Kinney III<br><i><i><i><i><br></i></i></i></i>Every time you =
stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you=20
gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog =
on his=20
own tail. It won't fatten the dog.<br>
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain<br><i><i><i><i><br><a href=3D"http:/=
/heretothereideas.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://heretothereideas.=
blogspot.com/</a><br></i></i></i></i></div>
</div>
--20cf300fb2d1cede9f04f9c1914a--
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