No subject
Tue Nov 13 08:16:38 EST 2012
software support for using the drive, the writes would assume 512k boundary
limits, which would impose a significant speed penalty, as sequential
writes would be delayed by at least a full spin of the platter between
writes to the same sector on the drive.
Compatibility was achived in part by the manufacturer presenting the drive
as a 4k =91desired=92 volume with 512k sectors, windows vista and later wou=
ld
know that meant to use the 1k/4k allocation method, and ignore the 512k
sector size reported.
Important to know also, that the ability to use this on windows XP is
limited - Seagate moved to 4k, and does not use the compatible =91hack=92
above, the geometry only has the 4k sectors, and even though it does not
state so on the box, will only work on Vista or above.
On the server side, 4k is a bigger issue, as the integrated backup software
that comes with it is based on the same application in windows XP (even on
server 2008 R2, which is based on Windows 7 as a base) and Microsoft has
docs in TechNet stating that the software is not able to write to 4K
enabled disks. To backup windows xp or server you need aftermarket
software unless you have 512k disks as the backup destination..
*From:* Ron Frazier (ALE)
*Sent:* March 19, 2013 11:48 AM
*To:* justgold79 at gmail.com
*Subject:* Re: [ale] If you own (almost) ANY HDD, repartition with 4k
boundaries
**
Hi Justin,
I had bet Phil that he couldn't get XP running on a 4 K sector drive, under
certain criteria. He accepted the bet and eventually won it. He can fill
in the details. At this point, I have not personally ran XP with a 4K
sector drive. I pulled out some links which may help you.
At the very least, you probably need sata drivers updated as of mid 2010,
ahci mode on mb, and xp sp 3 with latest patches. Even if the unit boots,
I wouldn't trust it without testing it for a while, including updates. My
Win 7 machine looked like it was working for a while then I started getting
data corruption. I jumped through all kinds of hoops, but updating the
sata driver appears to have been the ultimate fix.
This is my message which started the thread, and which describes my
initially failed attempt to get my Win 7 running on a 4 K sector drive.
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139605.html
A comment by Phil re XP
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139638.html
A response to a comment by me regarding XP patch support ending
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139648.html
The imfamous bet
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139662.html
He takes me up on it
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139663.html
I clarify the conditions
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139667.html
Phil further clarifies and accepts
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139676.html
Note that the hard drive he used has Seagate's SmartAllign technology which
reduces migration problems. This may be a feature you want to look for.
http://www.seagate.com/internal-hard-drives/desktop-hard-drives/barracuda-g=
reen/
Background data from MS regarding 4K drives and Win XP.
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139785.html
10 steps you need to consider when converting to a 4K drive.
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139797.html
Phil describes how he won.
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139881.html
I had to concede
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2013-January/139885.html
That should give you lots of good information to think about.
Also, here is some info on SSD's that I posted previously that you might
find interesting.
Thread from Sept 2012 on SSD remaining lifetime indicator
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2012-September/137821.html
SSD Info you need to know thread
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2012-September/137831.html
Some of the sources for my original post
http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/2012-September/137874.html
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Ron
On 3/19/2013 9:02 AM, Justin Goldberg wrote:
What was the resolution? Does XP not like 4k drives? I'm thinking of
getting a larger drive for my laptop and switching to ssd in the process,
which is very likely to be manufactured post 2011.
On Jan 18, 2013 9:36 AM, "Phil Turmel" <philip at turmel.org> wrote:
On 01/17/2013 11:11 PM, Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:
> Hi Phil,
>
> It was good to meet you tonight. Sorry I couldn't hang around longer.
>
> What enjoyable beverage (or food) did you get with your winnings?
The Tommy Knocker ale. Thank you. :-)
> Jim, enjoyed the presentation tonight.
I, too. Thanks, Jim.
Phil
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing listAle at ale.orghttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists athttp://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
--=20
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very quickly=
.)
Ron Frazier770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.
linuxdude AT techstarship.com
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
--f46d042187f34f56c904d84f5168
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<div>When the drives were first introduced, the vendors did say that you=A0=
=93could=94 use them in windows XP, as long as you had the latest service p=
ack, but they also said that performance would suffer, and there would be s=
ome issues even then.</div>
<div>=A0</div><div>From memory, Windows XP does not use 4k allocations, so =
even with the software support for using the drive, the writes would assume=
512k boundary limits, which would impose a significant speed penalty, as s=
equential writes would be delayed by at least a full spin of the platter be=
tween writes to the same sector on the drive.</div>
<div>=A0</div><div>Compatibility was achived in part by the manufacturer pr=
esenting the drive as a 4k=A0=91desired=92 volume with 512k sectors, window=
s vista and later would know that meant to use the 1k/4k allocation method,=
and ignore the 512k sector size reported.</div>
<div>=A0</div><div>Important to know also, that the ability to use this on =
windows XP is limited - Seagate moved to 4k, and does not use the compatibl=
e=A0=91hack=92 above, the geometry only has the 4k sectors, and even though=
it does not state so on the box, will only work on Vista or above.</div>
<div>=A0</div><div>On the server side, 4k is a bigger issue, as the integra=
ted backup software that comes with it is based on the same application in =
windows XP (even on server 2008 R2, which is based on Windows 7 as a base)=
=A0 and Microsoft has docs in TechNet stating that the software is not able=
to write to 4K enabled disks.=A0 To backup windows xp or server you need a=
ftermarket software unless you have 512k disks as the backup destination..<=
/div>
<div>=A0</div><div>=A0</div><div>=A0</div> <div style=3D"border-top-color:r=
gb(225,225,225);border-top-width:1px;border-top-style:solid"> <strong>From=
:</strong>=A0Ron Frazier (ALE)<br> <strong>Sent:</strong>=A0March 19, 2013=
11:48 AM<br>
<strong>To:</strong>=A0<a href=3D"mailto:justgold79 at gmail.com">justgold79=
@gmail.com</a><br> <strong>Subject:</strong>=A0Re: [ale] If you own (almos=
t) ANY HDD, repartition with 4k boundaries<br> </div> <div>=A0</div><u></u>
=20
<div>
Hi Justin,<br>
<br>
I had bet Phil that he couldn't get XP running on a 4 K sector drive,
under certain criteria.=A0 He accepted the bet and eventually won it.=A0 He
can fill in the details.=A0 At this point, I have not personally ran XP
with a 4K sector drive.=A0 I pulled out some links which may help you.<br>
<br>
At the very least, you probably need sata drivers updated as of mid
2010, ahci mode on mb, and xp sp 3 with latest patches.=A0 Even if the
unit boots, I wouldn't trust it without testing it for a while,
including updates.=A0 My Win 7 machine looked like it was working for a
while then I started getting data corruption.=A0 I jumped through all
kinds of hoops, but updating the sata driver appears to have been the
ultimate fix.<br>
<br>
This is my message which started the thread, and which describes my
initially failed attempt to get my Win 7 running on a 4 K sector drive.<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
13-January/139605.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/=
2013-January/139605.html</a><br>
<br>
A comment by Phil re XP<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
13-January/139638.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/=
2013-January/139638.html</a><br>
<br>
A response to a comment by me regarding XP patch support ending<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
13-January/139648.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/=
2013-January/139648.html</a><br>
<br>
The imfamous bet<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
13-January/139662.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/=
2013-January/139662.html</a><br>
<br>
He takes me up on it<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
13-January/139663.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/=
2013-January/139663.html</a><br>
<br>
I clarify the conditions<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
13-January/139667.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/=
2013-January/139667.html</a><br>
<br>
Phil further clarifies and accepts<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
13-January/139676.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/=
2013-January/139676.html</a><br>
<br>
Note that the hard drive he used has Seagate's SmartAllign technology
which reduces migration problems.=A0 This may be a feature you want to
look for.<br>
<a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.seagate.com/internal-hard-drives/desk=
top-hard-drives/barracuda-green/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.seagate.com/=
internal-hard-drives/desktop-hard-drives/barracuda-green/</a><br>
<br>
Background data from MS regarding 4K drives and Win XP.<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
13-January/139785.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/=
2013-January/139785.html</a><br>
<br>
10 steps you need to consider when converting to a 4K drive.<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
13-January/139797.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/=
2013-January/139797.html</a><br>
<br>
Phil describes how he won.<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
13-January/139881.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/=
2013-January/139881.html</a><br>
<br>
I had to concede<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
13-January/139885.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/=
2013-January/139885.html</a><br>
<br>
That should give you lots of good information to think about.<br>
<br>
Also, here is some info on SSD's that I posted previously that you
might find interesting.<br>
<br>
Thread from Sept 2012 on SSD remaining lifetime indicator<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
12-September/137821.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/al=
e/2012-September/137821.html</a><br>
<br>
SSD Info you need to know thread<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
12-September/137831.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/al=
e/2012-September/137831.html</a><br>
<br>
Some of the sources for my original post<br>
<br>
=A0=A0=A0=A0 <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://www.ale.org/pipermail/ale/20=
12-September/137874.html" target=3D"_blank">http://www.ale.org/pipermail/al=
e/2012-September/137874.html</a><br>
<br>
Hope this helps.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Ron<br>
<br>
<br>
On 3/19/2013 9:02 AM, Justin Goldberg wrote:
<blockquote>
<p>What was the resolution? Does XP not like 4k drives? I'm thinking
of getting a larger drive for my laptop and switching to ssd in the
process, which is very likely to be manufactured post 2011.</p>
<div class=3D" gmail_quote">On Jan 18, 2013 9:36 AM, "Phil Turmel&qu=
ot; <<a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"mailto:philip at turmel.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">philip at turmel.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D" gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padd=
ing-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;borde=
r-left-style:solid">On
01/17/2013 11:11 PM, Ron Frazier (ALE) wrote:<br>
> Hi Phil,<br>
><br>
> It was good to meet you tonight. =A0Sorry I couldn't hang around
longer.<br>
><br>
> What enjoyable beverage (or food) did you get with your winnings?<br>
<br>
The Tommy Knocker ale. =A0Thank you. :-)<br>
<br>
> Jim, enjoyed the presentation tonight.<br>
<br>
I, too. =A0Thanks, Jim.<br>
<br>
Phil<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ale mailing list<br>
<a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"mailto:Ale at ale.org" target=3D"_blank">Ale at al=
e.org</a><br>
<a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
<a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target=
=3D"_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<pre><fieldset></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
<a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"mailto:Ale at ale.org" target=3D"_blank">Ale at ale.or=
g</a>
<a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target=
=3D"_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
<a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target=3D"=
_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a>
</pre><font color=3D"#888888">
</font></blockquote><font color=3D"#888888">
<br>
<pre>--=20
(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such. I don't always see new email messages very qui=
ckly.)
Ron Frazier
<a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"tel:770-205-9422" target=3D"_blank">770-205-9422=
</a> (O) Leave a message.
linuxdude AT <a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://techstarship.com" target=3D"=
_blank">techstarship.com</a>
</pre>
</font></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Ale mailing list<br>
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<a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale" target=
=3D"_blank">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a><br>
See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at<br>
<a tabindex=3D"-1" href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo" target=3D"=
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