[ale] Linux alternative recommendation ?
Courtney Thomas
courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net
Mon Oct 24 14:57:41 EDT 2011
Thanks much Greg for much valuable information as I profess little more
than an ability to locate the return key :-)
C.Thomas
On 10/24/2011 1:21 PM, Greg Clifton wrote:
> Courtney,
>
> Regarding booting from CD (live CD) forgetaboutit. As previously
> mentioned, it will be slow to boot and execute and you will have no
> swap or permanent storage (no suspend to disc). Further, a lost,
> broken or scratched disc would stop you dead. Much better to run from
> tumb drive or external 2.5" drive if you prefer. Depending on the age
> your notebook it should have USB 2.0 but if older, my be USB 1.0. If
> you have USB 1.0, little will be gained by either a SSD or the Seagate
> Hybrid drive previously mentioned because you will be I/O bound by the
> bottleneck of the 1.0 USB bandwidth. Even with USB 2.0, I'm not sure
> you would gain much from a SSD over USB. You can buy nice 500GB to 1TB
> external 2.5" drives for $100 or less these days and that will give
> you plenty of room to play with various distros, etc. Furthermore,
> 2.5" drives are inherently more robust than 3.5" drives (smaller
> platters flutter less). If you should choose the route of "rolling
> your own" with an enclosure which you install your own drive into, get
> one of the G-Shock type drives so that it will auto park if the drive
> happens to get knocked off the desktop while in operation. You might
> recall that IBM had a great commercial touting that technology a few
> years ago before they sold their notebook business to Lenovo.
> Regards,
> Greg Clifton
>
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Courtney Thomas
> <courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net <mailto:courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net>>
> wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> Thanks for the extensive replies.
>
> What would be the downside of using live CDs for various OSes and an
> external HD for data ?
>
> Appreciatively,
>
> Courtney
>
> On 10/24/2011 10:53 AM, Ron Frazier wrote:
> > Courtney,
> >
> > Here's my opinion of the pros and cons of HDD versus Flash (memory
> > stick). I don't know anything about (old style) ZIP drives, but
> I think
> > they're pretty much obsolete. I'm not sure if that's what you
> meant.
> >
> > HDD Pros:
> >
> > lots of storage
> > cheap price
> > could possibly convert to using the drive internally
> in the
> > laptop
> > could use the drive later to backup your PC
> > more likely to be able to dual boot / multi boot
> >
> > HDD Cons:
> >
> > subject to mechanical damage (don't smack or drop it)
> > usually requires 2 USB ports
> > heavier
> > more bulky
> > requires more power (reduces battery run time)
> > slower (caveat - as mentioned in my other post, the
> USB speed
> > may be the limiting factor)
> >
> > Flash (memory stick) Pros:
> >
> > small
> > light
> > requires only one USB port
> > draws less power (increases battery run time)
> > does not require an enclosure
> > faster (subject to limits of USB speed)
> >
> > Flash (memory stick) Cons:
> >
> > less storage space
> > more money per GB
> > harder to dual boot / multi boot (because of smaller
> storage
> > capacity)
> > easier to lose or misplace
> > long term longevity is questionable (in my opinion)
> > subject to electronic damage (static)
> > (Have you ever walked across a carpet in the
> winter,
> > touched a doorknob, and gotten a spark on your finger?)
> > (If you ever do something that sparks to the memory
> > stick, even if you don't know it, it will probably destroy it.)
> > (I would say the memory stick is less likely to
> incur
> > damage while traveling than the HDD.)
> >
> >
> > Regarding CD's, if you install your OS to the external HDD, you
> can boot
> > directly from it if your PC has the capability to boot from USB.
> You
> > don't need a CD. Also, another option is to put multiple operating
> > systems on your internal HDD. This is what I do. All my PC's
> can dual
> > boot between Linux and Windows. You could potentially boot between
> > multiple versions of Linux as well.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> > On 10/24/2011 3:40 AM, Courtney Thomas wrote:
> >> Ron,
> >>
> >> Thank you for all the important concerns unconsidered by me at this
> >> point, but it sounds like... I might be better advised to use
> live CD
> >> distros with a portable HD (rather than zip drives) for
> reliability and
> >> space.
> >>
> >> If true, what am I giving up if going that route ? Speed ?
> >>
> >> Gratefully,
> >>
> >> Courtney
> >>
> >> On 10/23/2011 12:37 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:
> >>
> >>> Courtney,
> >>>
> >>> What I'm discussing relates to using a memory stick for your
> purpose.
> >>> Most of it won't apply if using a HDD for storage. I will
> freely admit
> >>> to not being an expert in booting from a flash memory stick.
> However,
> >>> here are some things to think about. You probably want a high
> speed
> >>> memory stick. They have different class numbers. Higher is
> better, and
> >>> they don't always say on the label. I don't have the numbers
> >>> memorized. Get something of high quality. Pony up a few
> extra dollars
> >>> for something with a 5 year warranty, rather than a 1 year.
> (That would
> >>> apply to a HDD too.) The device should have built in wear
> leveling, and
> >>> should have SLC memory circuits which have greater longevity.
> This is
> >>> also not usually on the label. Flash memory cells can only be
> written a
> >>> certain number of times before they degrade. When I was
> teaching at a
> >>> technical college, I always told the students not to rely on a
> memory
> >>> stick for permanent storage. They can flake out sometimes.
> The other
> >>> thread I had posted about my relative wanting to recover
> photos is an
> >>> example. Obviously, storing an OS on the thing is a more
> permanent
> >>> application, and you don't want any bits suddenly going
> missing. I
> >>> would back up the entire memory stick from one to another
> periodically,
> >>> which would get the OS as well as all your data. (This also
> would apply
> >>> to a HDD.)
> >>>
> >>> Here are a few items the Linux gurus here (I'm not one) may
> wish to
> >>> address. You may not want a swap partition or file, since a
> swap area
> >>> will pound the memory stick very hard if the system get's low on
> >>> resources. There are pros and cons either way. Without swap,
> if you
> >>> boot a PC with low RAM, and run too many things, the OS may crash.
> >>> Also, you may wish to disable write caching to reduce the
> likelihood of
> >>> damaging the OS if the memory stick is removed without safely
> ejecting
> >>> it. The USB port may automatically disable write caching, I
> don't know
> >>> about that.
> >>>
> >>> In the past, I've heard of people running Linux on a memory
> stick and
> >>> burning out the stick within a few months. That was a while
> back, so
> >>> I'm not sure how the modern technology affects these issues.
> Makers of
> >>> memory sticks, and SSD's, now say cell wear is not a problem.
> That may
> >>> or may not be true, but I'm not totally convinced. While I
> would like
> >>> to have an SSD, I'm not yet convinced that they can last 5 -
> 15 years,
> >>> the way a properly maintained and not mechanically damaged HDD
> can.
> >>>
> >>> Sincerely,
> >>>
> >>> Ron
> >>>
> >>> On 10/23/2011 11:42 AM, D. Marshall Lemcoe Jr. wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> There are some very fine 32GB and 64GB in the sub-$100 price
> range and
> >>>> anything will suit a live-key. if you're going to be
> traveling, the
> >>>> USB flash drive will be your better bet because there is no
> chance of
> >>>> it breaking like a regular HDD might.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for the distribution, I would recommend something that
> doesn't take
> >>>> a lot of setup and configuration to use, like Ubuntu or Fedora.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Jim
> Kinney<jim.kinney at gmail.com <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> With the cost of removable media what it is, it's feasable
> to have several
> >>>>> distros on a 250GB drive all sharing a /home and selectable
> at boot from
> >>>>> grub.
> >>>>> Or carry a selection of live CD/DVD media and a thumb drive
> for storage.
> >>>>> This is easier unless the laptop has no cd drive. Older
> laptops may not be
> >>>>> able to boot from usb.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Oct 23, 2011 9:41 AM, "Richard
> Faulkner"<rfaulkner at 34thprs.org <mailto:rfaulkner at 34thprs.org>>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> What is the most important feature of the OS? Security?
> Media support?
> >>>>>> Something basic or something w/everything not nailed down?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Richard Bronosky<Richard at Bronosky.com>
> >>>>>> Reply-to: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<ale at ale.org
> <mailto:ale at ale.org>>
> >>>>>> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts<ale at ale.org <mailto:ale at ale.org>>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [ale] Linux alternative recommendation ?
> >>>>>> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 09:02:53 -0400
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How much storage do you need? Could a flash drive work? 32G
> or 64G?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 23, 2011 8:27 AM, "Courtney
> Thomas"<courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net
> <mailto:courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd like to carry a portable Linux USB HD installation for
> traveling
> >>>>>> with my laptop and would appreciate suggestions, not only
> for which
> >>>>>> Linux flavor but also which drive.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> C.Thomas
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >
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