[ale] I've decided again to learn programming again

[Ron Frazier]

see below

On 10/22/2011 9:06 AM, JD wrote:
> Sharing workspaces in Eclipse is not intuitively obvious, at least for
> me. This may help, a little
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/717247/how-to-transfer-eclipse-workspace-and-project-from-windows-to-linux-and-mac
>
>    

I'll look at that article.  I don't necessarily have to share the 
workspaces.  I really don't know much about Eclipse.  I was thinking 
that, if someone has a problem or an error, at least seeing their screen 
would help the other two of us troubleshoot.

> If I had a choice, I'd not use Eclipse, but alas, it isn't my choice. I
> find it too complex for my noobie use - I'm definitely a noob at Eclipse.
>
>    

I'm not married to the idea of using Eclipse.  However, almost 
universally, if a textbook mentions an IDE, that's the one.  Sometimes 
they talk about NetBeans too.  I think we'll definitely need an IDE once 
we get beyond simple examples.

> I think your sharing requirements are too strict even if you had a
> $50/month budget. OTOH, I can understand.  The way that I learned to use
> complex IDEs previously was by watching experts over their shoulder.
> Eclipse definitely is complex.  It is hard to replace the team
> programming together at the same desk using internet tools.  The voice
> chat will help, but nothing can replace being at the same desk for 3
> hours a day for a mont
>
>    

I know what you're saying.  I did acknowledge that I might be grabbing a 
tiger by the tail.  I might be able to do a Google+ video hangout with 
the camera pointed at the screen instead of me.  I totally agree about 
the advantages of being in the same room.  However, there are two 
problems.  1) finding a meeting place and 2) fuel cost.  If I drive from 
Cumming to Lawrenceville (where one person is) 3 times / week, that will 
cost me almost $ 100 / month in fuel.  I just cannot do that.  So, we 
have to be virtually there.

> Using git lets you easily share code. It doesn't matter if you are
> typing examples from a book or not. Having access to someone elses'
> version will help.  If you'd like to share a text document and all write
> code inside it simultaneously, that is possible. Sure, you can use
> google docs, but for more direct text-based sharing there are 2 other
>    

I might look into setting up Git right from the start then.

> tools - the names of which slip my mind this morning. I think one was a
> Linux-only word processor and the other was a webservice that google
> bought, tried for a few years and closed. The server code is FLOSS now.
>    Ah ---- etherpad. https://code.google.com/p/etherpad/
> Never used either of these.
>
>    

I'll look into that too.  I think the other thing you mentioned might be 
Google Wave, which died a quick death.

> Google docs and git work for my team, though we are struggling to share
> Eclipse workspaces between Windows and Linux devs.
>
>    

I'm not quite following you there.  If you're using Git, why do you need 
Google Docs?

Thanks for all the help.

Sincerely,

Ron

> On 10/22/2011 08:41 AM, Ron Frazier wrote:
>    
>> Hi JD,
>>
>> I'll be looking into these resources you mentioned.  The java based ones
>> might just do the trick.  I wasn't sure you could use 1 computer and be
>> sharing 1 of it's screens while viewing others on another monitor.  If
>> that can be done, then that would be fine.  I do want GUI support on the
>> screen sharing.  I'll be using Gnome, Sam will be either using Gnome or
>> Unity, and we'll all be using Eclipse at some point.  I want us all to
>> be able to view each other's screens for setup and troubleshooting
>> assistance.  I appreciate these suggestions.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> On 10/21/2011 4:39 PM, JD wrote:
>>      
>>> VoIP side:
>>>
>>> * Asterisk server - freepbx then use any SIP client you like.
>>>
>>> * Any SIP client with FreeConferenceCallHD.com - you can use a regular
>>> telephone, but SIP works with a direct connection for free. I've used
>>> Twinkle without issues.
>>>
>>> * Mumble?
>>>
>>> I don't understand why you would need 2 PCs for each person. It feels
>>> like you're thinking the Microsoft way. Perhaps just share a part of 1
>>> screen or use a 2nd monitor and share that.  Or if you like, just setup
>>> 1 development server and let the other users share it with a remote
>>> connection. Use FreeNX if you **must** have a GUI.
>>>
>>> On the video sharing side - look to java (cough)-based solutions.  The
>>> F/LOSS server versions aren't trivial to setup from what I can tell.
>>> OpenMeetings and http://bigbluebutton.org/ might have everything you
>>> want, including a VoIP server.
>>>
>>> These aren't point and click installations.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/21/2011 03:20 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:
>>>
>>>        
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I want to thank those who've replied to this thread previously.  I'll be
>>>> considering all those pieces of advice as my programming project
>>>> advances, and will probably post other messages here about them.  I'm
>>>> not quoting the whole thread here, because I want to ask some questions
>>>> about technology setup, so I and a couple of partners can begin learning
>>>> Java programming collaboratively.  Essentially, I and Scott Castaline
>>>> and possibly one other person, not part of this group, whom I shall call
>>>> Sam for now, wish to all participate in a learning experience to learn
>>>> to program in Java.  (If there is a Sam in the group, he's not related
>>>> to this discussion.)  At least at first, we'll be working through one of
>>>> the Deitel and Deitel textbooks.  These have the unique advantage of
>>>> having lots of case studies and exercises to look at.  We want to be
>>>> able to participate in the experience together in real time, by
>>>> collaborating over the internet.  I will be running Ubuntu 10.04, Scott
>>>> will probably be running Fedora 15, and Sam will probably be running
>>>> Ubuntu 11.04.
>>>>
>>>> I want to enable 2 features to enable collaboration.  1) Multiparty VOIP
>>>> voice conferencing, and 2) Multiparty screen sharing
>>>>
>>>> Here's how I want this to work.  Each person will have two computers to
>>>> use.  One machine will be their development machine, with the editor,
>>>> compiler, IDE, and other Java development related tools.  The second
>>>> computer will be their voip machine and viewer machine.
>>>>
>>>> For item 1), Multiparty VOIP voice conferencing, I want each of the
>>>> three people to be able to join a VOIP conference such that each one can
>>>> wear a computer headset and each one can talk and the other two can hear
>>>> him, just like a conference call.
>>>>
>>>> For item 2), Multiparty screen sharing, it gets a bit more complicated.
>>>>
>>>> Let's designate the computers for each person as follows:
>>>>
>>>> Dev-Ron
>>>> Viewer-Ron
>>>>
>>>> Dev-Scott
>>>> Viewer-Scott
>>>>
>>>> Dev-Sam
>>>> Viewer-Sam
>>>>
>>>> Each person will share their Dev screen with the other two people, in
>>>> view only mode.  Each person will view the other two people's Dev
>>>> screens in windows on his Viewer screen.
>>>>
>>>> So, the contents of the screens would be as follows:
>>>>
>>>> Dev-Ron - Ron's development environment
>>>> Viewer-Ron
>>>>         a window containing an image of Scott's Dev screen
>>>>         a window containing an image of Sam's Dev screen
>>>>
>>>> Dev-Scott - Scott's development environment
>>>> Viewer-Scott
>>>>         a window containing an image of Ron's Dev screen
>>>>         a window containing an image of Sam's Dev screen
>>>>
>>>> Dev-Sam - Sam's development environment
>>>> Viewer-Sam
>>>>         a window containing an image of Ron's Dev screen
>>>>         a window containing an image of Scott's Dev screen
>>>>
>>>> I hope that makes any sense whatsoever.  If it works, every participant
>>>> will be able to see whatever the other two are doing and every one will
>>>> be able to talk to every one.  Note that I don't need pictures of the
>>>> people, just the computer screens of their Dev systems.  Note also that
>>>> this is different from a situation where there is one presenter, since
>>>> every party is both a presenter and a viewer.
>>>>
>>>> This needs to be free open source software, and should not require any
>>>> fees to participate.
>>>>
>>>> I'm thinking Ventrillo might work for voice, if available for Linux.
>>>> I'm thinking that TeamViewer might work for the screen sharing.  I'm not
>>>> sure if either can do multiparty conferencing, and I'm sure that there
>>>> are other options.
>>>>
>>>> Leave it to me to try to grab a tiger by the tail, as I'm sure this will
>>>> be complicated.  I've done point to point remote control before, but
>>>> nothing like this.  Any advice on how to get this working would be
>>>> appreciated.  Thanks in advance.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely confused,
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>          


-- 

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Ron Frazier

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