[ale] Anyone know if this is true?

Ron Frazier atllinuxenthinfo at c3energy.com
Thu Oct 13 14:40:43 EDT 2011


Thanks.  LOL

Ron

On 10/13/2011 1:14 PM, Rich Faulkner wrote:
> Noob to Hawk in one easy lesson.  Jump in the pool...down the rabbit 
> hole with you!
>
>
> On Thu, 2011-10-13 at 13:07 -0400, Ron Frazier wrote:
>> Ahh, very clever.  Hook me in with my own idea.  8-)  I would 
>> consider it.  I'd also have to consider if I can allocate the 20+ 
>> hours it would probably take to get ready.  My findings are currently 
>> very very preliminary.  Also, I'm one of the more newbie Linux users 
>> in the group.  I'm not sure how qualified I am.  What did you have in 
>> mind?
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> On 10/13/2011 11:51 AM, Jim Kinney wrote:
>>> So can you consider a presentation of your findinds and perhaps some 
>>> testing?
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> On Oct 13, 2011 10:52 AM, "Ron Frazier" 
>>> <atllinuxenthinfo at c3energy.com 
>>> <mailto:atllinuxenthinfo at c3energy.com>> wrote: 
>>>
>>>     Hi guys,
>>>
>>>     This thread has prompted me to do a bit of research to try to
>>>     see if I can find a consensus on the swap size issue.  At the
>>>     moment, it seems like ask 100 people and get 100 different
>>>     opinions.  I haven't uncovered enough data to tabulate and
>>>     summarize it at this point.  I'm pretty sure my linux machines
>>>     have plenty of swap for applications.  I have 8 GB of swap on
>>>     two machines which have 8 GB of RAM.  If I look at the system
>>>     monitor program in Gnome, it looks like the swap is rarely ever
>>>     touched.  By the way, having 8 GB of RAM in a laptop is a nice,
>>>     new, liberating experience for me.  It's really nice to be able
>>>     to open several dozen browser tabs and a dozen or more
>>>     applications without the machine even breathing too hard.  This
>>>     is my first laptop capable of that.  I also have 8 GB of swap on
>>>     a machine with 4 GB of RAM, so it should be sitting pretty, so
>>>     to speak.  I haven't found anything that says extra swap is
>>>     harmful.  What I don't know, is whether the two 8 GB machines
>>>     would be able to hibernate (suspend to disk) properly, if the
>>>     swap is equal to the RAM.  I may have to increase the swap on
>>>     those to 10 GB - 12 GB.  This is not an issue in Windows since
>>>     it uses a separate hibernate file.
>>>
>>>     In my research, I found this article (
>>>     http://lukasz.szmit.eu/2009/11/compcache-swap-on-linux-desktop.html
>>>     ).  The article is a bit old, but this talks about a fascinating
>>>     project called Compcache.  Here's a quote from the page:
>>>
>>>     ---> quote on <---
>>>
>>>     Compcache is an open source project implementing an innovative
>>>     approach to swap. This has been done before, but not for swap.
>>>     Users of DOS and early Windows versions will remember
>>>     DoubleSpace/DriveSpace, which was used to virtually expand
>>>     available disk space, by storing files in a compressed form.
>>>     Compcache does exactly that, but for swap, by creating a new
>>>     block device in the system which interfaces with the special
>>>     compressed memory region in RAM. On the plus side, Compcache can
>>>     also be configured to use an alternative swap device when the
>>>     RAM swap area is full.
>>>
>>>     ---> quote off <---
>>>
>>>     I think that is a really cool idea for low resource machines. 
>>>     While I don't know if I'll ever use it, since my modern machines
>>>     have a decent amount of RAM, it could really benefit older,
>>>     smaller machines.  For example, I have an old IBM Thinkpad with
>>>     160 MB (yes MB) of RAM.  I've pretty much retired the machine. 
>>>     It does run a GUI based version of Linux, just barely, but is
>>>     painfully slow.  The old 300 MHz processor doesn't help much
>>>     either.  I think I have an old version of Lubuntu on it. 
>>>     Anyway, this type of technology could give the machine more
>>>     breathing room by compressing the memory, so it would be like
>>>     having 256 MB of RAM.  I also have an old Toshiba laptop which
>>>     is topped out at 1 GB or RAM.  Both Ubuntu 10.04 and Windows XP
>>>     run pretty well.  However, I could compress 512 MB of RAM and
>>>     then effectively have 512 MB or normal RAM and 1 GB of swap.
>>>
>>>     Here's the link for the Compcache project:
>>>     http://code.google.com/p/compcache/
>>>
>>>     Here's an interesting quote from their site: "With compcache at
>>>     hypervisor level, we can compress /any/ part of /guest/ memory
>>>     transparently."
>>>
>>>     Now, while I'll admit I don't understand all the implications of
>>>     that statement, it looks like you could essentially compress all
>>>     the RAM if running a lightweight hypervisor and running your OS
>>>     as a guest.
>>>
>>>     The project website also points out that embedded systems could
>>>     benefit from the technology, where you have to justify every
>>>     chip you put into a device.
>>>
>>>     Finally, here is an interesting quote from the original article:
>>>
>>>     ---> quote on <---
>>>
>>>     On my desktop, a Dell Precision S390 with 2GB DDR2 RAM and a
>>>     Maxtor Diamond Max 9 80GB drive, I am getting the following
>>>     hdparm results (average of three runs) for my disk swap, and my
>>>     compcache swap:
>>>
>>>         * Swap on disk: 58MB/s
>>>         * Compcache swap: 557MB/s
>>>
>>>     An order of magnitude better bandwidth at no expense? I like that.
>>>
>>>     ---> quote off <---
>>>
>>>     I like that idea too.  I'd like to know what you guys think of
>>>     this concept.
>>>
>>>     Sincerely,
>>>
>>>     Ron
>>>
>>>     On 10/13/2011 8:58 AM, Rich Faulkner wrote:
>>>>     For me depends upon the system as to swap size, but if I plan
>>>>     on using hibernation features I have swap just over the size of
>>>>     RAM as in 1-1/2 times as the general (old) rule that I've
>>>>     followed...generally a couple of gigs for a desktop and I leave
>>>>     it at that.  Being as I'm only building desktops and laptops
>>>>     lately I'm not speaking to servers.  An interesting experiment
>>>>     is to do test installs to various system configs and see what a
>>>>     given distro will do for a default installation.  I consider
>>>>     this a benchmark from the developers on an "ideal"
>>>>     configuration given the hardware provided.    RinL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     On Thu, 2011-10-13 at 08:45 -0400, Scott Castaline wrote:
>>>>>     On 10/12/2011 09:40 PM, Tavarvess Ware wrote:
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     >  Scott I read the ram x 2= swap in my Linux classes as well and have
>>>>>     >  generally followed that, but with memory soaring as it has lately i am
>>>>>     >  starting to rethink that.  A system 48gigs of memory would be 96 in
>>>>>     >  swap..... I wonder if te old format has changed and I haven't heard yet.
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     I only go RAM x 2 = swap for the 1st 2 GB of RAM so 2GB RAM = 4GB swap.
>>>>>       From there on it's RAM x 1 = swap so 4GB RAM = 6GB swap. So your 48 GB
>>>>>     of RAM = 50GB swap, and yup that's one hell of a lot of swap space.
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     >  On Oct 12, 2011 9:32 PM, "Scott Castaline"<skotchman at gmail.com  <mailto:skotchman at gmail.com>
>>>>>     >  <mailto:skotchman at gmail.com>>  wrote:
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     >      On 10/12/2011 04:14 PM, planas wrote:
>>>>>     >      >  On Wed, 2011-10-12 at 15:13 -0400, Geoffrey Myers wrote:
>>>>>     >      >>  'Just so you all know, when determining how much space to assign to
>>>>>     >      >>  swap: Swap isn't just used for paging or virtual memory
>>>>>     >      management; swap
>>>>>     >      >>  is also used by power management for suspend-to-disk
>>>>>     >      (hibernation). '
>>>>>     >      >>
>>>>>     >      >>  I seriously don't know, so I'm asking.
>>>>>     >      >>
>>>>>     >      >
>>>>>     >      >  I have seen that a good swap size is ~1.5x the RAM.
>>>>>     >      >  --
>>>>>     >      >  Jay Lozier
>>>>>     >      >  jslozier at gmail.com  <mailto:jslozier at gmail.com>  <mailto:jslozier at gmail.com>
>>>>>     >      >
>>>>>     >      >
>>>>>     >      >
>>>>>     >      I remember from somewhere that upto 2GB use 2.0x RAM above 2GB of
>>>>>     >      RAM go
>>>>>     >      with 1:1 ratio so 4Gb RAM = 6GB swap. I don't remember why 2x on the
>>>>>     >      first 2GB and this goes back to when 4GB was a lot on pre-configured
>>>>>     >      retail boxes. So like Geoffrey I can't see having 18GB of swap for a
>>>>>     >      16GB machine.
>>>>>     >
>>>>>                  
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
>> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
>> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new messages very quickly.)
>>
>> Ron Frazier
>>
>> 770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
>> linuxdude AT c3energy.com
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-- 

(PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new messages very quickly.)

Ron Frazier

770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
linuxdude AT c3energy.com

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