[ale] C Compiler for Linux
Ed Cashin
ecashin at noserose.net
Sun Jun 26 17:14:09 EDT 2011
Why learn more than one tool? Because often the people who make good tools
are very smart, and there's a lot to learn by getting to know why they made
it.
A good example is the editor, "sam". I don't use sam, but I'm very glad I
took the time to get some skills with it. It hurt a little, but it opened
my mind up in permanent ways.
http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/4th_edition/papers/sam/
Programming languages are the same way: Someone really good at C will get a
new way of thinking about problem solving by gaining proficiency in prolog.
On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com> wrote:
> My thing with emacs is in single-user mode during a catastrophic failure, I
> have vi(m) not emacs. So why learn two tools?
>
> So I tell people if you're going to only
> _learn _one_ make it
> editing tool vim
> scripting language PERL (I'm shifting that towards
> Python BTW)
> compiled language C
> DBM PostgreSQL
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Michael Trausch <mike at trausch.us> wrote:
>
>> The funny thing about all this vim vs emacs business is that they seem to
>> have the ability to do similar things. But I think emacs and its single-mode
>> setup is better. Just my two cents!
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my phone... a G2 running CM7 nightlies!
>> On Jun 26, 2011 9:48 AM, "Jim Kinney" <jim.kinney at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hah! You left out the "TIF" (Total Intimidation Factor) of watching
>> someone
>> > proficient in vim really use the environment.
>> >
>> > I think it was at the point I saw someone split the screen, open a
>> shell,
>> > reconnect to an open screen session running ssh to a remote machine and
>> > extract a config file and paste it back in the vim doc they were working
>> on
>> > that I just totally dropped my jaw.
>> >
>> > The _ONLY_ thing I like about the forced screen format of current laptop
>> is
>> > I can easily do a vertical split in vim and see two files side by side,
>> one
>> > orig and the other working version.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Michael Potter <michael at potter.name>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Yet another suggestion for gaining skills in vim:
>> >> Watch someone who is good at vim use vim.
>> >>
>> >> You will not necessarily know what commands they are using, but you
>> >> will know what you are aiming for in your learning.
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> > A suggestion on gaining skills in vim:
>> >> >
>> >> > don't use anything but vim
>> >> >
>> >> > gedit is a good tool for doing cut-n-paste from firefox and the like
>> when
>> >> > the goal is to assemble an array of disconnected info to be used in
>> >> another
>> >> > format like LOwriter. But for coding, not so good. (and to think I
>> first
>> >> > coded in pico and designed to work around the line-length limits of
>> pico)
>> >> >
>> >> > There is also gvim which is vim with an X-windows environment. Works
>> just
>> >> > like vim from a shell but also has menus you can use when you can't
>> >> recall
>> >> > the commands. Importantly, it shows the cli-version commands to use
>> as
>> >> the
>> >> > menu shortcuts so you learn vim.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 1:30 AM, Ron Frazier <
>> >> atllinuxenthinfo at c3energy.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> JD,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks for all this info. I'm saving it for the time when I need it.
>> >> >> Thanks too, for the offer of help. I may take you up on it at some
>> >> >> point. Until I get more thoroughly into VIM, do you know anything
>> about
>> >> >> using gedit for editing?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> To the others who've replied to my posting, thank you, whether I
>> >> >> personally replied to every one or not.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Sincerely,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Ron
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 6/24/2011 10:33 PM, JD wrote:
>> >> >> > On 06/24/2011 05:09 PM, Ron Frazier wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Hi Rich,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Even though we've discussed some of this on the phone, I thought
>> I'd
>> >> >> >> share it with the group.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I've been threatening to relearn programming for 15 years, and
>> I'm
>> >> >> >> hoping to actually carry out the threat. 15 years ago, I
>> programmed
>> >> in
>> >> >> >> Clipper, a C like database language. I posted a thread a few
>> months
>> >> >> >> back on this list talking about developing in C#. However, the
>> >> people
>> >> >> >> here convinced me that C++ would be better. I now hope to plow
>> >> through
>> >> >> >> the book "Programming Principles and Practice Using C++" by
>> Bjarne
>> >> >> >> Stroustrup (the inventor of C++). I'm hoping to do cross platform
>> >> >> >> development. I'm going to use Visual C++ Express on Windows,
>> which
>> >> is
>> >> >> >> free. On Linux, I've hit on the GCC compiler, as suggested by
>> >> others.
>> >> >> >> I don't know how to use the make system, at this point, but
>> compiling
>> >> >> >> small programs with a few source files seems to be very simple. I
>> >> >> >> believe you can go through this entire book without an IDE. I
>> know
>> >> >> >> that
>> >> >> >> the gedit editor in Ubuntu does syntax highlighting and auto
>> >> indention
>> >> >> >> for C / C++ files. I'll probably start out using that. I may also
>> >> try
>> >> >> >> VIM as I've had just enough experience with VI in the past to be
>> >> >> >> dangerous. (I basically know the insert, delete line, and write
>> file
>> >> >> >> commands.) Obviously, I would have to learn more about VIM for
>> >> serious
>> >> >> >> programming, but you can do a lot with just those commands,
>> although
>> >> >> >> not
>> >> >> >> very efficiently. By the way, this book also talks about a cross
>> >> >> >> platform minimal graphics toolkit called FLTK (faster than light
>> >> >> >> toolkit, I think) which can be used to put basic windows and
>> buttons
>> >> on
>> >> >> >> the screen, etc. When I graduate to an IDE, I'll probably try
>> >> NetBeans
>> >> >> >> or Eclipse. I believe Eclipse can run on Windows too.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> > You don't need an IDE and when you are starting out, it
>> complicates
>> >> and
>> >> >> > hides things that you really need to know. You need 3 terminals.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > * Any good syntax highlighting editor in a window (vim, geany, or
>> >> cough
>> >> >> > emacs). Geany does a halstat on functions and classes which is
>> very
>> >> >> > useful without all the bloat that java-based IDEs bring.
>> >> >> > * in another term, use make
>> >> >> > * debugger like gdb or xxgdb if you want a GUI. I haven't done
>> >> >> > debugging in years, so does xxgdb still exist?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You also want to use a version control system. These days I like
>> BZR,
>> >> >> > but GIT is useful too.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Vim is probably the most efficient editor ever created. You just
>> need
>> >> to
>> >> >> > know how to use it. I've used many different editors of all sorts,
>> >> >> > brief, spf-edit, emacs, vi, Visual C++, geany, notepad++, eclipse
>> ...
>> >> >> > none of them compare to vim in the hands of a power user. I
>> migrated
>> >> >> > from emacs to vim when I kept changing into vi-mode to get things
>> >> done.
>> >> >> > Anyway, an editor is a very personal decision and you'll need to
>> pick
>> >> >> > the best for yourself.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You can start with simple bash scripts to build your initial
>> projects.
>> >> >> > It isn't like they will be all that large or take more than a few
>> >> >> > seconds.
>> >> >> > make ... ah, make. tabs matter. Be certain that your editor isn't
>> >> >> > "helping you" by replacing tabs with spaces. If that happens, your
>> >> >> > Makefile will never work. I think gmake is the default make in
>> Linux,
>> >> >> > which is good. It has been more than a few years since I wrote any
>> >> >> > makefiles, but if you provide a sample and ask a question, I can
>> help.
>> >> >> > I may even have a makefile template around here on an old CD
>> backup
>> >> from
>> >> >> > work ... long ago.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >>
>> >> >> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want
>> to
>> >> >> call on the phone. I get about 300 emails per day from alternate
>> energy
>> >> >> mailing lists and such. I don't always see new messages very
>> quickly.)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Ron Frazier
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 770-205-9422 (O) Leave a message.
>> >> >> linuxdude AT c3energy.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >> Ale at ale.org
>> >> >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>> >> >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at
>> >> >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > --
>> >> > James P. Kinney III
>> >> >
>> >> > As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to
>> >> > consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as
>> they
>> >> > please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the
>> outcome.
>> >> > - 2011 Noam Chomsky
>> >> >
>> >> > http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Ale mailing list
>> >> > Ale at ale.org
>> >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
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>> >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Michael Potter
>> >> Replatform Technologies, LLC
>> >> +1 770 815 6142
>> >> michael at potter.name
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > --
>> > James P. Kinney III
>> >
>> > As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to
>> > consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as
>> they
>> > please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.
>> > - *2011 Noam Chomsky
>> >
>> > http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
>> > *
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> James P. Kinney III
>
> As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to
> consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they
> please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.
> - *2011 Noam Chomsky
>
> http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
> *
>
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>
>
--
Ed Cashin <ecashin at noserose.net>
http://noserose.net/e/
http://www.coraid.com/
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