[ale] [OT] rights and wrongs [politics] (was Re: Linux apparently illegal in MA)

[Jim Kinney]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Robert Reese~ <ale at sixit.com> wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> (I've added an OT tag and a 'politics' tag to the subject line which was changed
> to more reflect more accurately the contents.)
>
>>> OTOH, you are right that not every Constitutionally guaranteed
>>> right exists on private property or in other private situations.
>>> A prime example is that no one has the 1st Amendment right on my
>>> private property.
>>>
>>>
>> It would make for a more interesting world if the freedoms set down
>> in the Constitution were backed by something similar to the GPL. My
>> rights exist and no one has the right to lessen them.
>
> My rights end where yours begin; when I'm on your private property, I am subject
> to your rights.  And vice versa.  ;c)

It's more an overlapping rights mesh network than a hard end/beginning
situation. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness are not by
definition a cause of rights conflict between individuals unless on
persons happiness is another persons misery. At that point the
non-removal of happiness should trump the acquisition of happiness.
>
>
>> I have a
>> responsibility to ensure that the rights I have are both passed to
>> and protected for all those who cross my little chunk of dirt.
>
> That is your choice.  Incidentally, how do you feel about spam, telemarketers,
> and junk faxes?  Do you vigorously defend their rights on your little chunk of
> dirt (or PCB)?

I feel about these people and process exactly as I feel about door to
door religious proselytizers, mosquitoes, fleas, mooching "friends",
and most other sorts of ill-adapted, socially backwards parasites: in
"small quantities" they are a tolerable nuisance and in large
quantities they become a loss of my happiness thus fall into the
category of "deserving remedial action". Fleas and mosquitoes (as well
as poison ivy, poison oak, stinging nettle and similar environmental
irritants) get pulled, sprayed or otherwise have their life
exterminated when their presence is noted above a variable background
noise level of irritation.

Sadly, I have yet to find an insecticide that works for spammers...
>
>
>> It seems to me as things are now with the rights in the
>> Constitution have the ability to be switched off at will by some
>> citizens
>> (employers in particular.) that perhaps they are not really rights
>> but merely privileges.
>
> They are asserting their rights by doing so.  No one is being forced to endure
> them.  That is, employees and guests are not bound servants.  Everyone has a
> truly inalienable right called Free Will to leave or to not go in the first
> place.  Furthermore, you have a right to go establish your own business and
> protocols on your own private property where you decide how employees and guests
> are treated.  And doing so would be no different than those who decide to limit
> or restrict none, some, many, or all of another's rights while that person is on
> that property.  That, too, is a facet of free will.

I disagree that people have the free will to not work for employers
that by default suppress their individual rights. As this practice is
widespread almost to the point of the total exclusion of alternate
means of rights-infused employment, there is a slavery aspect still
dominant in modern society that I personally find abhorrent. I must
work to provide basic food, clothing and shelter for myself and my
dependent children. Yet to do so I must give up the rights as
designated by the employer. That employer  has the right to change
that list of abdicated rights at any time and I am required to comply
immediately and automatically with no recourse other than to have my
Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness removed from me.

I have established a business in the past but have discovered that the
level of back-stabbing, money-grubbing bastard it takes to provide a
steady income stream to meet my families needs is far in excess of
what I can stomach on a daily basis while still being able to hold my
head up and reply honestly in any conversation with friends.
>
> However, when rights are switched off at will by government at any level by any
> representative of that government that is cause for great concern for citizens
> and society as a whole.  Which, interestingly, was the entire point of the 2nd
> Amendment: to ensure the people always had a way to defend themselves from their
> government or invading governments.  But I digress... (with apologies to
> Geoffrey and Mr. Ratliff)

Yes. "At will" termination of rights by ANY organization, or
individual, is a serious threat to all of society. We are held
together as a group by that common thread of rights defined by
wealthy, white male slave owners over 200 years ago. Amazingly,
despite their individual shortcomings, their collective philosophy and
written work was pretty good.

It is a common split-personality argument that people refer to
"government" as separate from "people". In theory as well as practice
here, we _do_ actually elect (disregarding election fraud issues and
the apparent inability to count by some) people to hold office. I have
not been able to detect any real Cylon activity yet :-) The real issue
here is that "government" has continued in its long tradition of being
a gathering place for the pathologically power-hungry. These are just
people that do seem to have a drive to be "in control". From the
stereo-typical K12 teacher to the highest reaches of international
government, a long tenure in office appears to be rooted not in
altruistic service to ones fellow man and all of society as a whole,
but is instead an extended ride to personal glory fueled by the
headiness of the numbers of lives they control. Ditto for the CxO
office holders (a 3-letter title I once held poorly).

The second amendment was, IMO, a blatant statement acknowledging the
importance of ordinary citizens possessing the physical means to
overthrow an oppressive regime. It is a double-edged sword of a
process. Especially in light of the usual process whereby every power
grabber first seeks out the supporters to arm them and then undermines
all opposition. Even George Washington supported the harsh treatment
of any remaining British sympathizers after the cessation of overt
hostilities.

The idea of a successful, armed populist uprising in modern times in a
country such as the US is truly only in the realm of dark, twisted
fantasy. The current level of armaments available to the defenders of
the "official" leadership, between combined federal, state and local
military and law enforcement puts the citizenry at such an
overwhelming disadvantage as to guarantee an uprising to be a suicidal
blood-bath that will curtail all but the criminally insane from
another attempt.

But it sure is fun to use an old WindowsME box as a target! I have
participated in many discussion of what caliber is best able to
destroy a hard drive to ensure no survivable data remains. According
to , um, research, yeah, research, a 12g slug at 20' is excellent
(impact shock demagnitizes the platter surface!). And fun! Especially
if there is a stack of drives to be, um, _cleansed_.
>
>
>> Maybe if more people, teachers and congress-critters especially,
>> had a real gut-level understanding of the social and philosophical
>> implications of the GPL we could have a better society that doesn't
>> have as much potential for a small percentage of often thuggish
>> people to abuse the extra powers they receive in exchange for a
>> tremendous responsibility.
>
> Which version of the GPL?  v1, v2, or v3?

v3.5 of course!! That would require open disclosure for those who
receive the benefits of social funds, from personal recipients up to
corporate government contractors. Many eyes find bugs and cheats and
places where improvements can be made.
>
> Just kidding!!  Of course, you are right!

Please tell my wife is does actually happen occasionally :-)  Not that
she is ever wrong, of course, but that maybe I'm a bit less wrong on
occasion :-)

<coming up on #20 with her. still amazed>
>
> Cheers,
> R~
>
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> Ale at ale.org
> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



-- 
-- 
James P. Kinney III
Actively in pursuit of Life, Liberty and Happiness