[ale] [rant] I dislike "we only support winblows/OS X" AT&T internet
Jeremy T. Bouse
jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net
Mon Mar 3 17:09:20 EST 2008
Okay, so I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on tv... but as I read that
I read it to say that you're responsible for making your own backups and
that AT&T is covering their own arses if their software blows away
something you have on your system. Not a problem if I'm running Linux
and not installing any software from them.
Ned Williams wrote:
> Actually doesn't section 3.2 of that very TOS cover this? They even
> put it in all caps too :)
>
> Ned
>
>
> 3.2 _File Modification/Backup Requirements._ The Qualifications of
> your computer's operating system, as well as the installation (whether
> self-installed or AT&T -installed), use, inspection, maintenance,
> repair, or removal of the Equipment and Software, may result in an
> inadvertent service outage or reconfiguration of the software on your
> computer, or temporary interruption of your telephone service. In
> addition, as part of the installation process, system files on your
> computer, such as, but not limited to, INI, BAT, SYS, and DLL files,
> may be modified or deleted. AT&T does not represent or warrant that
> such modifications or deletions will not disrupt the normal operations
> of your computer. You acknowledge and agree that you are solely
> responsible for backing up all existing computer files by copying them
> to another storage medium prior to the installation of your Equipment
> and the Software, and prior to any inspection, maintenance, repair, or
> removal of your Equipment and the Software. AT&T DOES NOT REPRESENT OR
> WARRANT THAT INSTALLATION BY YOU OR A THIRD PARTY CHOSEN BY YOU WILL
> ENABLE YOU TO SUCCESSFULLY ACCESS OR USE THE SERVICES, NOR THAT ANY
> SUCH INSTALLATION WILL NOT CAUSE DAMAGE OR MODIFICATIONS TO, OR LOSS
> OF, ANY OF YOUR SOFTWARE, HARDWARE, FILES, DATA, OR PERIPHERALS. AT&T
> AND OUR EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, CONTRACTORS, AND REPRESENTATIVES WILL HAVE
> NO LIABILITY WHATSOEVER FOR ANY DAMAGES OR SERVICE PROBLEMS (INCLUDING
> TELEPHONE SERVICE) RESULTING FROM YOUR, OR A THIRD PARTY'S, FAILURE TO
> PROPERLY INSTALL, ACCESS, OR USE THE EQUIPMENT, SOFTWARE, OR SERVICES.
>
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:14 PM, Jeremy T. Bouse
> <jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>> wrote:
>
> Actually have you checked out http://www.att.net/legal/tos cause those
> specs you mention are no where within it nor is the explicit
> mention of
> Windows or Mac. Closest I can find is section 3. Equipment & Software
> and all it really says is:
>
> Due to the infinite number of possible combinations of hardware and
> software, you are responsible for the compatibility of your system
> with the Service. Any equipment that was not provided to you by
> AT&T
> is not the responsibility of AT&T , and AT&T will not provide
> support and will not be responsible for ongoing maintenance or
> management of such equipment. Any AT&T-provided modem will be
> either
> a new or a fully inspected, tested, and warranted return or
> repackaged unit.
>
> Which I can understand, I provide my own router/access point behind
> their DSL modem I'm not asking them to support that router but I am
> asking them to support their connectivity which they do provide
> and thus
> should support. Yes I've had their modems fail, I've also replaced my
> separately purchased Sangoma S518 ADSL card with their provided
> Speedstream to prove a problem was not my modem but the line as
> the same
> problem was occuring. If your call to tech support is network
> connectivity reasons, which I know for me is the only time I do ever
> call, then nothing in their TOS (so far as I can see) says support can
> be withheld because of your operating system.
> <http://www.att.net/legal/tos>
> Ned Williams wrote:
> > You miss my point.
> >
> > Regardless of what it takes to do a ping..you have their service you
> > agreed to their terms of service, that TOS states they only support
> > windows...that means you understood at the time of getting the
> service
> > that calling in because your Linux connected machine has a
> problem is
> > a lost cause. The effect of the operating system is not what is up
> > for debate, the effect of the contract the customer agrees too,
> is. Is
> > it a wrongly minded contract sure if your a Linux person, but
> that is
> > not of any consequence to AT&T. .If you don't like, don't be their
> > customer. That is your greatest method to effect chance upon them.
> >
> >
> > Ned
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Jeremy T. Bouse
> > <jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>
> <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net
> <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>>> wrote:
> >
> > But again these specs you quote also fall back to the issue
> of what
> > affect the Operating System has on OS-independent network
> routing
> > issues. Those are really specs for software being installed not
> > what is
> > needed to provide a level of network service connectivity.
> If they ask
> > you to do a ping does it really matter what OS you do it from?
> > Same for
> > traceroute, opening a web page, etc...
> >
> > Ned Williams wrote:
> > > If you have 19 machines on a network, why don't you have a
> > switch and
> > > a router and not force a linux box to do the job of the
> > aforementioned
> > > 10 dollar router?
> > > Sorry I know there are people out there who insist on
> demonstrating
> > > value in their stll creaking along 486/66 by making it
> their dsl
> > > router/firewall...but I mean rather than get spitting mad
> on the
> > phone
> > > with techs who you KNOW are not going to know squat about
> linux nor
> > > are they required too...(a google of "AT&T system
> requirements"
> > first
> > > hit spells out what they are required to support)
> > >
> > > * Intel or equivalent Pentium Pro, II, III, or IV at
> 133MHz
> > or faster
> > > * Windows 95/98/ME/XP or Windows NT 4.0/2000 (TCP/IP and
> > Ethernet
> > > support must be enabled)
> > > * RAM -
> > > o Windows 95/98/XP - 32 MB
> > > o Windows NT - 32 MB
> > > * Hard drive with 100 megabytes available
> > > * Ethernet Network Interface Card (NIC) or built-in
> Ethernet
> > port
> > > supporting 10 Base-T
> > > * CD ROM
> > > * Microsoft^® TCP/IP stack
> > >
> > >
> > > This means when you, you're gf, your mom,dad uncle or
> whomever has
> > > their service all agreed to these terms when you got the
> service..
> > >
> > > don't agree fine, get speak easy, they support Linux and
> your blood
> > > pressure will be lower...but don't expect the AT&T's Chennai
> > support
> > > center to understand the eccentricities of the latest Debian
> > release,
> > > when their product list is limited to windows only..
> > >
> > > and hey if it helps..they don't support Vista either
> > >
> > > Ned
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 12:05 PM, Jeremy T. Bouse
> > > <jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net
> <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>
> <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net
> <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>>
> > <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net
> <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>
> > <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net
> <mailto:jeremy.bouse at undergrid.net>>>> wrote:
> > >
> > > The other problem with being able to go with any one
> > other than the
> > > telco is if you're like me, stuck behind a remote
> DSLAM the
> > telco
> > > won't
> > > provide the resellers with the ability to service you.
> Every DSL
> > > provider claims they can't service my house but I have
> the top
> > > speed DSL
> > > from AT&T. Luckily I don't have to call them for
> support too
> > often
> > > considering I've got a very non-standard configuration
> in the
> > > house that
> > > would drive their script-readers nuts, along with myself
> > trying to
> > > explain it to them.
>
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