[ale] Suse Enterprise & RPM repositories

Sun Jul 27 23:31:34 EDT 2008

we run SLES where I work and I have to say, I pretty much hate it. I came from Red Hat, been working with it since around v6 through RHEL5 - so maybe my expectations are jaded. None the less, I have found a number of items in suse to follow a windows mentality when it comes to packaging and the sort.

I share your concerns with zen (zmd is the process name), yast2 and rug. Zen as a product for the enterprise (1000+ devices) is weak at best and seems as though they were focusing more on fitting the bill for all types of systems instead of focusing on the core problem (efficiently delivering packages to a linux os). Rumor had it, although I have yet to see change log / docs on this, that the opensuse development track removed zen/rug from their packaging. Given an assumption based on Fedora/RHELs model, that means rug is soon to sunset within the next 24-30 months - although it doesn't seem SusE is as rigid about the release/patch schedule as RH is.

So, in light of all that and more, I've had luck with rolling my own yum rpms and manually creating repositories with the createrepos etc.. packages. What's really nice about creating your own repos is the ability to deliver custom packages to systems belonging to the repository. (google: create repos yum). The results show you how to do it, very easy and with groups you can really customize deployments. 

side note: this has worked well with sles10.x x86 and x86_64, but has been a complete nightmare with sles9.x x86_64. The differences with core packages and kernel between 9 and 10, are amazing to say the least - imo sles9.x is a very immature product. Think in terms of differences between Red Hat 7 and RHEL3; those are two different worlds.

Obviously, I have a disdain for SuSE - so feel free to learn on your own but I have no love for this OS, especially 9.x. Novell has managed to f*** something really great up... again. I imagine it won't be the last.

I hope ymmv.

--- On Fri, 7/25/08, James Taylor <James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com> wrote:

> From: James Taylor <James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: [ale] Suse Enterprise & RPM repositories
> To: ale at ale.org
> Date: Friday, July 25, 2008, 11:45 PM
> I would recommend not upgrading SLED or SLES with anything
> but the update repositories.
> 
> You shouldn't need to for SLES, and the whole
> justification for SLED is that it is a complete supported
> package, so updating any of the apps outside of the repo
> blows that logic.
> 
> Stick with openSUSE if yo need to do any desktop stuff.  It
> is much more current, and most projects provide updated rpms
> in the openSUSE community repositories.
> 
> -jt 
>  
> 
> James Taylor
> The East Cobb Group, Inc.
> 678-697-9420
> james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
> http://www.eastcobbgroup.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>> "Thomas, Dave"
> <dthomas at tandbergtv.com> 7/25/2008 11:02 PM
> >>> 
> Great... This is exactly what I'm looking for.
> 
> I looked at the opensuse mailing lists and couldn't
> find the subscribe
> links either :)  But I see the activity.  That's good.
> 
> OBS does have a nice search as well and it's making the
> transition to
> SUSE bearable.  I've sure been spoiled by gentoo's
> way of just figuring
> everything out.
> 
> The bad news is, I'm still stuck in RPM hell.  There is
> no SLED/SLES
> xorg-x11 >= 7.0 RPM.  Of course there are lots of more
> recent openSUSE
> RPMs, but they depend on stuff like I'm definitely not
> upgrading (like
> the c library).  I think that's because I'm going
> against the spirit of
> a stable distribution.  My last option looks like
> rebuilding the 7 or so
> Xorg rpms from openSUSE 11 SRPM.  Will try the opensuse too
> list.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On
> Behalf Of Greg
> Freemyer
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 7:44 PM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Subject: Re: [ale] Suse Enterprise & RPM repositories
> 
> Welcome to the group.
> 
> Here's some overall SUSE info:
> 
> 1) There is a great opensuse mailinglist.  Higher volume
> than even
> this one.  And the skill sets on it are surprisingly high. 
> The only
> issue is some real hard cases hang out there and flame wars
> are pretty
> common, so you have to ignore the craziness at times.
> 
> I've forgotten where to sign up, but the archive is
> herer:
> http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/
> 
> For SUSE specific questions you may have better luck there
> than here.
> 
> 2) There is a "factory" that is continuously
> creating rpms of the
> lastest code.  Great stuff if the dependencies don't
> get you.  Every 8
> months the factory rpms are released as the next distro and
> factory
> continues to move ahead.  2 years ago I pulled rpms from
> the factory
> anytime I wanted something new.
> 
> 3) Now they have the OBS (Opensuse Build Service).  It is
> much nicer
> than the factory because they often compile rpms for
> several different
> releases and distros.  (Including RH, etc.)
> http://software.opensuse.org/search
> 
> The OBS is not comprehensive yet, but a significant part of
> the
> factory rpms are now built via the OBS.  Again the
> advantage is they
> tend to be available for various distros and older suse
> releases in
> the OBS.
> 
> 4) In the official repositories SUSE does not tend to
> update versions
> of packages, instead they backport fixes.
> 
> See more interspersed:
> 
> 2008/7/25 Thomas, Dave <dthomas at tandbergtv.com>:
> > Hi all!
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > Case in point: Dual-head X setup using an onboard
> Intel video.  I
> found a
> > forum post saying newer intel drivers would fix my
> problem.  I see I
> > currently have RandR 1.1 and 1.2 has worked for Intel
> cards of mine in
> the
> > past.
> >
> > It seems Xorg 6.9 is the latest on the update site. 
> Googling around,
> I see
> > an FTP site ftp.suse.com and found
> /pub/suse/update/10.2 contains a
> newer
> > Xorg I'd like to try.  Telling yast to use it as a
> catalog doesn't get
> me
> > far since all the updates I try cause conflicts.
> >
> I'm surprised you have dependency issues from there.  I
> think that is
> the source of "online updates" which should get
> installed as part of
> your security updates.
> 
> As root, run "you" from the CLI and make sure you
> are getting your
> security updates.
> 
> FYI: 10.2 goes out of support in Dec.  Why are you using
> it?  You need
> to move on before the end of the year.  (11.0 has been out
> for a month
> now.)
> 
> 
> >
> > We are moving some production systems from openSUSE to
> Suse Enterprise
> > Server, so I'm reluctant to encourage openSUSE for
> desktops.  Would
> you
> > suggest using that as a catalog for updates?
> >
> >
> >
> > I realize that SLED is a "stable"
> distribution so they'd rather
> backport
> > things like kernel updates to reduce the risk of
> breaking
> compatibility.
> > Does that make updating Xorg unrealistic?
> >
> 
> Even in opensuse they backport kernel fixes etc.   The
> advantage of
> SLED is that they limit the number of choices people have. 
> That way
> you can have more control of what people are running on
> their
> desktops.
> 
> >
> > RHEL and CentOS provide other update sites for users
> who need more
> recent
> > packages than are considered "stable" --
> does this exist on SLED?
> >
> I think SLED will accept any of the rpms compiled for the
> corresponding opensuse.  (10.2?)
> 
> >
> > Thanks, looking forward to the next meeting J
> 
> Greg
> -- 
> Greg Freemyer
> Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer
> First 99 Days Litigation White Paper -
> http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/99%20Days%20whitepaper.pd
> f
> 
> The Norcross Group
> The Intersection of Evidence & Technology
> http://www.norcrossgroup.com
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