[ale] good website for novice learning Java ?

[Rev. Johnny Healey]

As far as programming tasks, Python can do everything Java can.  I think
that most of the reasons Python hasn't replaced Java are political, not
technical.  Python code is inherently open source, which prohibits some
people from using it.  Sun has been pushing Java as an "Enterprise"
language, which makes most PHBs happier.  Schools that aren't receiving
hardware and funding from Sun and Microsoft (to teach Java and .Net) tend to
teach much more academic languages, like scheme.

There are probably some things I'm forgetting...

-Johnny

On 10/12/06, Courtney Thomas <courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>  But, can Python be a substitute for Java and is it functionally as
> complete, and if yes to these....why has it not
> basically surplanted Java  ?
>
> Ignorantly,
> Courtney
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rev. Johnny Healey <rev.null at gmail.com>
> *To:* Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 12, 2006 12:18 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [ale] good website for novice learning Java ?
>
> Python is the easier language to learn.  I've TA'd a couple of
> introductory CS courses in Java and can honestly say that it's not a good
> language to try to start with.  A "hello world" app in java has about 10
> magic keywords, the python equivalent has about 1.
>
> Also, from most of the code I've seen and written in the two languages,
> Python code tends to be clean and simple, whereas Java code is more likely
> to be overarchitected.  I think this reflects the underlying attitudes of
> the two languages.
>
> Both languages are well documented and have strong, friendly communities.
> The atlanta Java community seems larger than the Python one.
>
> -Johnny
>
> On 10/12/06, Courtney Thomas <courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> >  Can Python be used as a substitute for Java  ?
> >
> > Is the consensus, in your opinion, that Python is preferable/better than
> > Java  ?
> >
> > Thank you again,
> >
> > Courtney
> >
> >  ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Rev. Johnny Healey <rev.null at gmail.com>
> > *To:* Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> > *Sent:* Thursday, October 12, 2006 11:15 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: [ale] good website for novice learning Java ?
> >
> > It's kind of funny that you mention both Bruce Eckel's Java book and
> > Python, since he seems to have hopped off of the java wagon and onto the
> > Python one.  Last I heard, he's writing a _Thinking_in_Python_ book.
> >
> > -Johnny
> >
> > On 10/12/06, Charles Shapiro <hooterpincher at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Grit your teeth and buy a book. I'm fond of Bruce Eckel's
> > > _Thinking_in_Java_ ( http://mindview.net/Books/TIJ4 ).
> > > Download and install the jdk from sun on your machine. Read all the
> > > chapters and do all the examples.
> > > I made a point of not using an IDE, so I could get a real feel for the
> > > language itself and how the naked compiler actually reacted to my errors.
> > > Most of the  stuff in Eckel's book is simple enough to  do from the command
> > > line, but  eventually you'll probably want to gain familiarity with  ANT (
> > > http://ant.apache.org/), which is the java equivalent of make(1).  If
> > > you  do this early on it may well make your learning experience a little
> > > easier.
> > >
> > > BTW if you're a _complete_ novice and this is your first foray into
> > > programming or your first foray into Object Oriented programming, I'd
> > > recommend python ( http://www.python.org/ ) instead of java. It's got
> > > all the crunchy OO goodness of java but lacks many of Java's irritations (
> > > e.g. the explicit compile step, Java's wonky handling of the OS
> > > interface, Java's distinction between 'primitive types' and 'objects')  Of
> > > course, you may be constrained to learn java by --say-- a boss who's
> > > offering a carrot or threatening with a stick.
> > >
> > > -- CHS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/12/06, Courtney Thomas < courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I know Sun has a ton of stuff re:java but I'm lookin' for
> > > > a beginner's site that is more navigable and transparent.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you once more,
> > > > Courtney
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