[ale] good website for novice learning Java ?

[JK]

Courtney Thomas wrote:

> Can Python be used as a substitute for Java  ?
> 
> Is the consensus, in your opinion, that Python is preferable/better than Java  ?

I think most people who actually like both languages would
say that Python is more suitable for beginners.  The main
reason is that Python does not try to artificially constrain
the programmer/student to a single programming paradigm,
which Java does ("object orientation" is Java's poison-of-choice.) 
People tend to either like Python or hate it based on
their previous experience with other languages. As a beginner
(I'm guessing?) you probably shouldn't pay too much attention
to language wars. Personally, I love working with Python,
and have recently gone from hating Java to mildly enjoying
it.

You can actually run Python code in the Java runtime
environment, and use the Java standard library from Python
code, using Jython:

<http://jython.org/Project/index.html>


If you're an absolute beginner and want to learn the
fundamentals of programming, IMO either Python or
Scheme <http://www.schemers.org> would be the best
place to start.

-- Joe


> Thank you again,
> 
> Courtney
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Rev. Johnny Healey 
>   To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts 
>   Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 11:15 AM
>   Subject: Re: [ale] good website for novice learning Java ?
> 
> 
>   It's kind of funny that you mention both Bruce Eckel's Java book and Python, since he seems to have hopped off of the java wagon and onto the Python one.  Last I heard, he's writing a _Thinking_in_Python_ book.
> 
>   -Johnny
> 
> 
>   On 10/12/06, Charles Shapiro <hooterpincher at gmail.com> wrote:
>     Grit your teeth and buy a book. I'm fond of Bruce Eckel's _Thinking_in_Java_ ( http://mindview.net/Books/TIJ4 ). 
>     Download and install the jdk from sun on your machine. Read all the chapters and do all the examples.  
>     I made a point of not using an IDE, so I could get a real feel for the language itself and how the naked compiler actually reacted to my errors.  Most of the  stuff in Eckel's book is simple enough to  do from the command line, but  eventually you'll probably want to gain familiarity with  ANT ( http://ant.apache.org/), which is the java equivalent of make(1).  If you  do this early on it may well make your learning experience a little easier.
> 
>     BTW if you're a _complete_ novice and this is your first foray into programming or your first foray into Object Oriented programming, I'd recommend python ( http://www.python.org/ ) instead of java. It's got all the crunchy OO goodness of java but lacks many of Java's irritations (e.g. the explicit compile step, Java's wonky handling of the OS interface, Java's distinction between 'primitive types' and 'objects')  Of course, you may be constrained to learn java by --say-- a boss who's offering a carrot or threatening with a stick.
> 
>     -- CHS
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     On 10/12/06, Courtney Thomas < courtneycthomas at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>       I know Sun has a ton of stuff re:java but I'm lookin' for
>       a beginner's site that is more navigable and transparent.
> 
>       Thank you once more,
>       Courtney
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