[ale] Advice

Wed Jan 4 08:22:44 EST 2006

Thats about where we are...talking further with people, it is ideal to have someone that is educated in linux, as that is where our current IT staff is lacking, but because of the way gas and insurance is, we have to really watch our recurring expenses. although exchange is very $$$ to start, it doesnt have any kind of recurring charges for updates and can be supported off our current IT staff. Im going to be doing meeetings throughout the day today and will keep you guys updated with my thoughts as discussions progress to try and be sure i dont make a mistake that ends up costing us money in the end. thanks again!
-Rob
> 
> From: Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com>
> Date: 2006/01/04 Wed AM 07:28:40 EST
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Subject: Re: [ale] Advice
> 
> If you do not have a person on site that is trained in Linux but knows
> windows then you need to stick to windows.  I'm a bigot and love Linux
> but I know the reality when it comes to implementation.  I can maintain
> Linux systems because of my experience but those in the Windows world
> can not and simply sending one to some training is no good either.
> It appears your vendor may be abandoning UNIX too.  Its a shame because
> when we sold a software product that ran on AIX and SCO it eas a breeze
> to support remotely.  We switched to NT and had a support nightmare
> because frankly there is no easy way to support winbloze remotely
> without products like PC Anywhere.  And we used modems and a TTY at 9600
> is fast enough for anyone.
> My current companies sells a software product that runs on Linux. Why?
> A) because we have expertise, B) It is easy to support via modem and
> ssh. The bottom line is if you do not have any Linux expertise in house
> you'll need to contract it out and your management may see that as a
> waste of money when they have an employee that can "do" windows....
> In summary if you don't have access or are not willing to pay for access
> to an experienced Linux admin then you may have issues and may regret a
> move to Linux.  I know how tight a transportation company is.  I
> consulted for a trucking company that is on Fulton Industrial.  They run
> a product on SCO and use TinyTerm to connect.  They did not like paying
> me $50/hr to come out and install SCO on a new server and move all their
> data and etc.  Gas prices have got them in a tight position.  Probably
> has all transportation companies in a tight position.
> 
> On Tue, 2006-01-03 at 23:43 -0500, Rob Fauls wrote:
> > Ok, so ive been trying to stay away from asking you guys on here
> > because that?s not really what you are all about, but I?ve been trying
> > to arrange a few different things for my company and im faced with a
> > difficult answer.  The whole thing, without going into huge detail, as
> > I will below, boils down to windows or linux for the mail server
> > keeping in mind that the company is not currently staffed with anyone
> > that can support linux, they don?t want to outsource work, and there
> > isn?t time for us to send the tech to training. 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >             That was the short version, here?s the medium/long
> > version.  We have a trucking company that is based in Atlanta, but
> > operates throughout the country.  We have a software package that
> > currently runs off a mixed unix/windows system. The main database and
> > character version of the software runs off a RISC 6000, while the
> > windows version operates off a windows 2003 server.  Fyi, when I talk
> > about the two systems, the unix system is the backbone of everything,
> > the windows system simply pulls the database off the rics.  On the
> > client side, there is a character-based telnet login, and on the
> > windows side, a gui-based program that runs on the server through
> > remote desktop/terminal services.  There have been threats/promises
> > that the unix side will be done away with and the system will only be
> > updated on the windows side after a period of time, thus far, PDS, the
> > software manufacturer, has not removed support for the unix side, and
> > they have not stated a specific time that they will discontinue
> > support. They have only said that it will be done because the new
> > system is windows, not unix?bottom line (nothing to do about this, its
> > economics, so moving on)  As a company, we are considering a move to
> > thin-clients that will login to a 2003 server. We have to stick with
> > windows here because a good portion of our software simply wasn?t made
> > for anything but windows and the people that works for us don?t want
> > to learn a new system or new software and it isn?t worth pushing them
> > over.  Considering the thin clients, I think it?s a good move to get
> > us on board with the windows 2003 server for the PDS server.  Chapter
> > 2:  The other half of this, and the one that im really concerned
> > about, is the server that we are about to purchase. We have been
> > looking around for a number of months at possibilities and options for
> > our mail server, and started to go with a linux machine to begin with,
> > but because we bought the wrong system (an HP DL-180 instead of a
> > DL-380?the 180 didn?t have the power we wanted out of it or the raid
> > function we needed) the project was questioned and there were
> > arguments made that we should stick with windows because there
> > wouldn?t be nearly as much of a learning curve associated with it as
> > there would be with a linux system.  I understood where they were
> > coming from. Their current full-time IT guy isn?t trained in linux and
> > to be frank, is limited in his general knowledge of networking
> > altogether.  He is great for what they do now, he knows pds back and
> > forth and can fix the day-to-day problems that we have.  He has
> > trouble learning new tricks, though?old dog.  I feel that this issue
> > can be fixed with simple training, but I am unsure whether or not they
> > will want to go through the ?hassle? of training and retraining a
> > linux guru as new things come out.  I understand the problem there is
> > that the company stagnates and will be left to drown as new tech comes
> > out and they aren?t able to integrate it because they didn?t keep up
> > with the changing times.  In any case, now, the contract was handed
> > off to the company that is doing the setup/install/qos for our VoIP
> > system. They have quoted out a system that comes out to approx 10k for
> > a dl-380, 3x36gig 15k rpm HD, 4x512 ram, and a 3.0 intel along with M$
> > smb server 2003 with exchange with 35 licenses.  For a M$ product, its
> > great.  The question is, do we need to go with this system or would we
> > be better off switching to a linux server and using open source to get
> > all this done.  As far as I am concerned, I think that setting aside
> > the fact that we currently have nobody on site to support it, there
> > isn?t a con to linux, but the simple fact that 95% of out business is
> > done over email confirmations, if an email server goes down, another
> > has to be able to pick up the slack without fail.  As far as I see,
> > the advantages of windows are that we will be able to utilize the
> > remote desktop feature to be able to utilize thinclients, but with pds
> > we already have this. We also have the ability to integrate the
> > blackberry enterprise server and to synchronize schedules and setup
> > meetings, and all the other ?cool things? that exchange does that I
> > haven?t seen from a single package in linux.  Maybe im blind. Maybe I
> > don?t know what im talking about, but I guess that?s why im coming
> > here in the end, because I have totally confused myself and im too new
> > at linux to be able to give them a straight answer.  The biggest thing
> > stopping me, as I think ive said enough that you probably could quote
> > me without saying it is that im nervous about leaving them without an
> > on-site person to handle the email server and if they loose an hour,
> > they have lost a huge chunk of money that could easily offset that
> > months profits entirely.  Yes, I know that the M$ would probably crash
> > more, but going off the theory of many small crashes vs one large
> > crash is more digestable.  The contract was going to be signed on wed
> > (today/tomorrow, depending on when you read this) but it has been put
> > on a hold until I talk with some of the people tomorrow morning.  I
> > know a guy that is willing to help setup the server and will get
> > everything running on it, the only problem is that he already has a
> > full time job, so I cant count on him and I don?t have anyone else
> > around?maybe its time to look at the employment mailing list that I
> > seem to remember ale having? *pulls up mozilla* I  think ive prattled
> > on enough to make everyone?s ears ache and heads explode.  Thanks for
> > any input, guys.
> > 
> > -Rob
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > P.S.- Still offering that ftp site, just still don?t know how I should
> > setup everything or what to tell you guys.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Equipment that is in the office or will be (to give an idea of the
> > hardware we have if it will change anyone?s decision?don?t think it
> > will, but as I said, I don?t know what to do so im kind of throwing
> > everything I can think to say at your guys)
> > 
> > 2x cisco 3560 48-port
> > 
> > 1x cisco 1840 router
> > 
> > ~35 workstations (win XP)
> > 
> > ~35 ip phones (cisco 17-something)
> > 
> > RISC 600 server (PDS database/old pds system)
> > 
> > Windows 2000 server (not sure what it does, to be honest)
> > 
> > Windows 2003 server (Windows PDS)
> > 
> > 10 monkeys in a room with only 8 typewriters
> > 
> > 
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