[ale] Advice

Wed Jan 4 07:25:23 EST 2006

Given you're concern that you will not be around to support this system
after it is set up stabilized, I would suggest a commercially supported
mail system.
I've configured and supported a number of mail systems, including GW,
Notes and (cough) exchange,  and I would say that leaving a small
business with a combination 
of postfix, POP and IMAP on top of newness to LInux might not be best
for the environment you describe

GW supports connectivity via SMTP, POP, IMAP, SOAP (Evolution), WEB,
mobile devices (including Blackberry, Palm and Windows Mobile) and GW
client and Outlook 2003/XP on windows and a Java client for Linux and
MAC.
If you use the Linux version it includes a license for SLES9.  The
server agents run on Linux Windows and NetWare or any combination of the
three.  If using it on NetWare there is Small Business Suite that
includes GW that lists for $50/user.

-jt

James Taylor
The East Cobb Group, Inc.
678-697-9420
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
http://www.eastcobbgroup.com

>>> smokeyrd at bellsouth.net 01/04/06 3:03 am >> 
More or less, that is my concern, yes.  The thing is that I know that
the
best option is probably to go to linux, as I have never had a bad
experience
with it. What I worry about is causing the company to loose massive
amounts
of money because im not going to be there in another 2- 3 months anyhow
and
when I leave I don't want them to be stuck with a system that they
don't
know how to operate. At the same time, I just know that linux is #1
for
stability and thus the #1 choice for servers for a reason. As one of
my
friends said...they don't break...period.  (exaggeration, but you know
what
I mean) I guess what im really looking for is someone to tell me that I
need
to shut up and do something...one way of the other. So far the only
people
that have suggested exchange are those that sell it, and I feel there
is a
reason behind that...economics. On the other hand, despite the fact
that M$
can sell a product simply by branding it, I feel there must be
inherent
properties that make exchange the right choice.  What I don't
understand is
where does exchange really come in? if its simply for blackberry
support,
then GroupWare could be an answer because I just looked again and
blackberry
has a lotus and novell version of their enterprise server out now. 
While I
understand that you have a biased opinion of the software, I haven't
heard
anything bad about groupware, although im about to start the search as
I
never looked very deeply into it.  As a heads up, when I was looking
at
linux, I was looking at running a postfix mail server on it doing imap.
This
server really will only have about 50 users on it as the drivers
themselves
do not currently maintain email addresses, although that is something
that
has been considered lightly for the future as a kind of "thank you" to
the
drivers. Again, ive prattled on like a school girl (thank you, stewey)
for
far too long...
- Rob

----- Original Message-----
From: ale- bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale- bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
To: ale at ale.org
James
Taylor
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 1:36 AM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: Re: [ale] Advice (S- P- A- M 3.91/2.00)

My take on this is that you need a strong message server environment,
but you're concerned about putting it on Windows, you'd like the
stability of Linux, but you don't know of a message system that runs
on
Linux that fits your requirements.

Given that you want the flexibility to run Windows or Linux, you might
consider an enterprise level mail system that runs on Linux and
Windows.
 GroupWise gives you all the capabilities that Exchange can provide,
without the admin and hardware overhead that exchange eats up in huge
chunks.

I'm admittedly biased because I work for a Novell partner, but I've
been supporting GW for almost fifteen years and I'm a strong advocate
of
the product.

- jt

James Taylor
The East Cobb Group, Inc.
678- 697- 9420
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
http://www.eastcobbgroup.com

>>> smokeyrd at bellsouth.net 01/03/06 11:43 pm >>> 
Ok, so ive been trying to stay away from asking you guys on here
because
that's not really what you are all about, but I've been trying to
arrange a
few different things for my company and im faced with a difficult
answer.
The whole thing, without going into huge detail, as I will below,
boils
down
to windows or linux for the mail server keeping in mind that the
company is
not currently staffed with anyone that can support linux, they don't
want to
outsource work, and there isn't time for us to send the tech to
training. 

            That was the short version, here's the medium/long
version.
 We
have a trucking company that is based in Atlanta, but operates
throughout
the country.  We have a software package that currently runs off a
mixed
unix/windows system. The main database and character version of the
software
runs off a RISC 6000, while the windows version operates off a windows
2003
server.  Fyi, when I talk about the two systems, the unix system is
the
backbone of everything, the windows system simply pulls the database
off the
rics.  On the client side, there is a character-  based telnet login,
and on
the windows side, a gui-  based program that runs on the server
through
remote
desktop/terminal services.  There have been threats/promises that the
unix
side will be done away with and the system will only be updated on the
windows side after a period of time, thus far, PDS, the software
manufacturer, has not removed support for the unix side, and they have
not
stated a specific time that they will discontinue support. They have
only
said that it will be done because the new system is windows, not
unix.bottom
line (nothing to do about this, its economics, so moving on)  As a
company,
we are considering a move to thin-  clients that will login to a 2003
server.
We have to stick with windows here because a good portion of our
software
simply wasn't made for anything but windows and the people that works
for us
don't want to learn a new system or new software and it isn't worth
pushing
them over.  Considering the thin clients, I think it's a good move to
get us
on board with the windows 2003 server for the PDS server.  Chapter 2: 
The
other half of this, and the one that im really concerned about, is the
server that we are about to purchase. We have been looking around for
a
number of months at possibilities and options for our mail server, and
started to go with a linux machine to begin with, but because we
bought
the
wrong system (an HP DL-  180 instead of a DL-  380.the 180 didn't have
the power
we wanted out of it or the raid function we needed) the project was
questioned and there were arguments made that we should stick with
windows
because there wouldn't be nearly as much of a learning curve
associated
with
it as there would be with a linux system.  I understood where they
were
coming from. Their current full-  time IT guy isn't trained in linux
and
to be
frank, is limited in his general knowledge of networking altogether. 
He is
great for what they do now, he knows pds back and forth and can fix
the
day-  to-  day problems that we have.  He has trouble learning new
tricks,
though.old dog.  I feel that this issue can be fixed with simple
training,
but I am unsure whether or not they will want to go through the
"hassle" of
training and retraining a linux guru as new things come out.  I
understand
the problem there is that the company stagnates and will be left to
drown as
new tech comes out and they aren't able to integrate it because they
didn't
keep up with the changing times.  In any case, now, the contract was
handed
off to the company that is doing the setup/install/qos for our VoIP
system.
They have quoted out a system that comes out to approx 10k for a dl-
380,
3x36gig 15k rpm HD, 4x512 ram, and a 3.0 intel along with M$ smb
server
2003
with exchange with 35 licenses.  For a M$ product, its great.  The
question
is, do we need to go with this system or would we be better off
switching to
a linux server and using open source to get all this done.  As far as
I
am
concerned, I think that setting aside the fact that we currently have
nobody
on site to support it, there isn't a con to linux, but the simple fact
that
95% of out business is done over email confirmations, if an email
server
goes down, another has to be able to pick up the slack without fail. 
As far
as I see, the advantages of windows are that we will be able to
utilize
the
remote desktop feature to be able to utilize thinclients, but with pds
we
already have this. We also have the ability to integrate the
blackberry
enterprise server and to synchronize schedules and setup meetings, and
all
the other "cool things" that exchange does that I haven't seen from a
single
package in linux.  Maybe im blind. Maybe I don't know what im talking
about,
but I guess that's why im coming here in the end, because I have
totally
confused myself and im too new at linux to be able to give them a
straight
answer.  The biggest thing stopping me, as I think ive said enough
that
you
probably could quote me without saying it is that im nervous about
leaving
them without an on-  site person to handle the email server and if
they
loose
an hour, they have lost a huge chunk of money that could easily offset
that
months profits entirely.  Yes, I know that the M$ would probably crash
more,
but going off the theory of many small crashes vs one large crash is
more
digestable.  The contract was going to be signed on wed
(today/tomorrow,
depending on when you read this) but it has been put on a hold until I
talk
with some of the people tomorrow morning.  I know a guy that is
willing
to
help setup the server and will get everything running on it, the only
problem is that he already has a full time job, so I cant count on him
and I
don't have anyone else around.maybe its time to look at the employment
mailing list that I seem to remember ale having. *pulls up mozilla* I 
think
ive prattled on enough to make everyone's ears ache and heads explode.
Thanks for any input, guys.

-  Rob

P.S.-   Still offering that ftp site, just still don't know how I
should
setup
everything or what to tell you guys.

Equipment that is in the office or will be (to give an idea of the
hardware
we have if it will change anyone's decision.don't think it will, but
as
I
said, I don't know what to do so im kind of throwing everything I can
think
to say at your guys)

2x cisco 3560 48-  port

1x cisco 1840 router

~35 workstations (win XP)

~35 ip phones (cisco 17-  something)

RISC 600 server (PDS database/old pds system)

Windows 2000 server (not sure what it does, to be honest)

Windows 2003 server (Windows PDS)

10 monkeys in a room with only 8 typewriters

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