[ale] Debian 3.0 as a server platform?

[James Sumners]

Well said and I agree with you. I do believe that Debian needs to
release more frequently. I just don't think that it should be
discounted without good reason. Your list of needs does make the use
of stable a tough thing to do and I wouldn't recommend anyone run
testing as a server.

At least someone experienced with Debian has finally been able to step
up and give some clear reasons why he doesn't use it. I would even
venture to say that this is the first time such a thing has happened
on the list. Most of the times it is "I tried to install it and
couldn't figure it out so it sucks" or "Everything is just too old and
there isn't any way to fix it." Finally, we get some good points as to
which packages are too old for the system to function properly and
why.

If Debian actually hits the estimated release date of Monday for Sarge
then I think they will once again be king. As of now, they really only
appeal to the die hard users such as me.

On 6/2/05, Stuffed Crust <pizza at shaftnet.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 02, 2005 at 11:42:22AM -0400, James Sumners wrote:
> > I have yet to hear anything to back up the "I need newer features"
> > statement. People that have a distaste for Debian stable love to use
> > it but they never give examples of it. What packages in testing or
> > unstable are necessary for you to run Debian on a server? Please, give
> > me some examples.
> 
> I've been burned too many times by -unstable to ever use it again
> on anything I care about, and even things I don't.  period.
> 
> Meanwhile, let's go back to -testing, soon to become the new -stable,
> but since this hasn't happened yet, we go back to the old -stable.
> 
> One machine's sole purpose is to run mailman and apache.  The mailman
> release in -stable (2.0.11) does not have some of the antispam features
> that the release in -testing (2.1.x) has.  In addition, I need to use a
> 2.6 kernel if I want this machine to be reasonably fast and stable (as
> in, not croaking under heavy loads).
> 
> (Many machines I maintain pretty much need 2.6 kernels if I want to use
>  the hardware to its fullest.  Newer hardware generally requires
>  newer support/system software, even if the applications  are identical)
> 
> Several servers I maintain need apache 2.0.   (-stable is on 1.3)
> All of the PHP stuff I run needs php 4.2.x+   (-stable is on 4.1.x)
> I have two servers running subversion 1.1.    (doesn't even exist in -stable)
> 
> SpamAssassin 3.x, Which needs perl 5.8 to run reliably with its
> threading model.  Newest in -stable is 2.x and 5.6, respectively. I make
> heavy use of sendmail milters which need relatively new-ish versions of
> sendmail. I take advantage of some of the new features of Postgresql 7.3
> vs 7.2 in -stable.   The list goes on.
> 
> Some of these (apache and subversion, at least) are available via
> backports.org, but not many, as people who want newer features either
> use a different distro alltogether, or abandon -stable and jump right to
> -testing.  Once you do this, you end up throwing away many of the
> strengths of Debian, while retaining all of its problems.
> 
> Look, this is not a Debian bashing.  The good thing about Debian Stable
> is that it is so stable.  The bad thing about it Debian Stable is that
> it is so stable.  Three years is aeons in the software world.
> 
> Fortunately, changes are afoot to make -Stable release more often.  This
> is a GoodThing.
> 
>  - Pizza
> --
> Solomon Peachy                                   ICQ: 1318344
> Melbourne, FL                                    JID: pitha at myjabber.net
> Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
> 
> 
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> 
> 


-- 
James Sumners
http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts
pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it
is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become
drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59