[ale] Greg's using "those guys" ; -) (was: could somebody moderate this?)

[Bjorn Dittmer-Roche]

On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Barry Hawkins wrote:

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> On Oct 7, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Preston Boyington wrote:
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>> Greg wrote:
>> 
>>> * Needs to be easily updatable.  CVSup is ok.  I am fine with
>>> a command line.
>>> 
>> 
>> err, apt-get?  aptitude?
>
> I have found apt-get and aptitude quite good, and better at identifying 
> dependency issues than CVSup, but that's just my personal opinion from 
> experience.

I agree, but I think this has mostly to do with Debian's camparatively 
large and active user base rather than the apt system vs ports. One Debian 
developer I know keeps insisting that debian is superior because of it's 
strict policy about software and updates. He may be right and he knows 
better than I do, but my impression is that it has more to do with the 
user base. (before RH had apt, he used to insist that apt made debian 
superior. now it's the policy. whatever.)

Whatever the reason, the upshot is that you can pretty much always count 
on the Debian stuff to work -- expecially in stable, but also in testing 
-- whereas I have definately found things not working on FreeBSD after an 
update, and that can be a big pain.

>>> FreeBSD has java,jboss, netbeans, and smarty in it's package
>>> system.  No one else has any of them (linux only has java).  They have
>>> embraced java as well as kept things relatively light.  Is used by many 
>>> large
>>> installations.  I am well versed in OpenBSD so it's familiar and
>>> easily updateable (but it puts a strain on the system during make
>>> (buildworld/installworld/buildkernel/installkernel) as
>>> opposed to Debians binary download).  FreeBSD will also allow me to use 
>>> packages
>>> or ports (more configurable).  Just hope it recognizes the 
>>> shift-fn-keypad
>>> combo (IT DOES !!! DANG !! SWEET!!) so I can manipulate screen 
>>> resolutions
>>> on the box.
>>> 
>> 
> A couple of caveats on FreeBSD's java support.  First, there is no native 
> jdk/jre.  You have to use Linux JDKs with Linux binary compatibility enabled. 
> Second, you can compile your own native JDK using the java/jdk14 port in 
> FreeBSD, but be aware that it is a journey involving the initial install of 
> the Sun Linux JDK to bootstrap the build, the download of several of the Sun 
> SCSL-licensed source package (you have to download these manually, due to 
> licensing technicalities; the package cannot do it automatically), the 
> download of the necessary patchset from the guy at eyesbeyond.com who 
> maintains it on his own, and then the install.  At the end of all that 
> effort, you find that the licensing implies stuff so shaky that you expect to 
> get an email from Scott McNealy with an MP3 of the C.O.P.S. soundtrack 
> attached to it - appropriately licensed, of course.
>
> If Java support is a big issue for you, I would urge you to consider a 
> full-fledged Debian install.

I did not find the java install to be so difficult. Going into the 
appropriate folder in the ports collection and typing "make install" walks 
you through what you need to do. The only thing I recall downloading 
manually was the SCSL-licensed source package.

I think it took me longer to figure out what to put in my apt source list 
on debian (debian does not include java for political reasons) than to get 
Java working on FreeBSD.

I think both Debian and FreeBSD are great choices for the laptop. Feel 
free to ask on this list if you need help installing Java on either 
system.

 	bjorn

-------------------
Bjorn Dittmer-Roche
XO Audio LLC

http://www.xowave.com
http://www.xoaudio.com