[ale] [OT] Interesting Take on MS Programming Tools

Tue Nov 26 11:52:31 EST 2002

On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 10:13, Dennany, Jerome {D177~Roswell} wrote:
> Besides the company that manufactures VS.NET, could you tell me what you actually dislike about the tool itself?
> 
> Jerry
> 

Well the Eula specifically states that if you use key components of
.Net, specifically libraries and the CRT I believe, you may not port
your program to any non-Windows platform.  Noone is going to program in
VS.Net and not use one of the components.  Thus using VS.Net will lock
your application into the Windows world.  I think you would be insane to
develop a program in VS.Net unless you knew in advance that you would
never want to port it.  

directly from the EULA on disc 1 of VS.Net
"	3.1 Redistributable Code-Standard.

	(a) If you are authorized and choose to redistribute Sample Code,
Redistributable Code, VC Redistributables, or Limited Use
Redistributable Code (collectively, the "Redistributables") as described
in Section 2, you agree: (i) except as otherwise noted in
Section 2.1 (Sample Code), to distribute the Redistributables only in
object code form and in conjunction with and as a part of a software
application product developed by you that adds significant and primary
functionality to the Redistributables ("Licensed Product"); (ii) that
the Redistributables only operate in conjunction with Microsoft Windows
platforms; (iii) not to use Microsoft's name, logo, or trademarks to
market the Licensed Product; (iv) to display your own valid copyright
notice which shall be sufficient to protect Microsoft's copyright in the
Product; (v) not to remove or obscure any copyright, trademark, or
patent notices that appear on the Product as delivered to you; (vi) to
indemnify, hold harmless, and defend Microsoft from and against any
claims or lawsuits, including attorney's fees, that arise or result from
the use or distribution of the Licensed Product; (vii) otherwise comply
with the terms of this EULA; and (viii) agree that Microsoft reserves
all rights not expressly granted. "

	If I remember correctly it prohibits you from using VS.Net to make an
application that directly competes with Access!  What's next Word?
Excel? SQL Server?  Windows Media Player?

again from the EULA
	"(a) "Jet" Files or MSDE. If you redistribute the "Jet Files" (as
identified in the Product ) or MSDE (individually or collectively, the
"MS DB Files"), you agree to comply with the following additional
requirements: (i) your Licensed Product shall not  substantially
duplicate the capabilities of Microsoft Access or, in the reasonable
opinion of Microsoft, compete with same; and (ii) unless your Licensed
Product requires your customers to license Microsoft Access in order to
operate, you shall not reproduce or use any of the MS DB Files for
commercial distribution in conjunction with a general-purpose word
processing, spreadsheet, or database management software product, or an
integrated work or product suite whose components include a
general-purpose word processing, spreadsheet, or database management
software product except for the exclusive use of importing data to the
various formats supported by Microsoft Access. Note: A product that
includes limited word processing, spreadsheet, or database components
along with other components which provide significant and primary value,
such as an accounting product with limited spreadsheet capability, is
not considered to be a "general-purpose" product."

sounds like they are protecting Office to me.

	And of course you may not use GPL, oh excuse me 'Identified Software'.

	"(b) If you use the Redistributables, or the "Sample Code" or
"Redistributable Code" portions of the SDK Software (as described in
Section 4.2(b) (all of the foregoing referred to in this paragraph as
the "Licensed Software"), then in addition to your compliance with the
applicable distribution requirements described for the Licensed
Software, the following also applies. Your license rights to the
Licensed Software are conditioned upon your (i) not incorporating
Identified Software into or combining Identified Software with the
Licensed Software or a derivative work thereof; (ii) not distributing
Identified Software in conjunction with the Licensed Software or a
derivative work thereof; and (iii) not using Identified Software in the
development of a derivative work of the Licensed Software. 
"Identified Software" means software which is licensed pursuant to terms
that directly or indirectly (A) create, or purport to create,
obligations for Microsoft with respect to the Licensed Software or
derivative work thereof or (B) grant, or purport to grant, to any third
party any rights or immunities under Microsoft's intellectual property
or proprietary rights in the Licensed Software or derivative work
thereof. Identified Software includes, without limitation, any software
that requires as a condition of use, modification, and/or distribution
of such software that other software incorporated into, derived from,
or
distributed with such software be (1) disclosed or distributed in source
code form; (2) be licensed for the purpose of making derivative works;
or (3) be redistributable at no charge."

	So you are limited as to what you can develop, what platforms you can
use and the license you use.  So long as competition, Linux and the GPL
aren't important to you, I'd say VS.Net is the perfect choice.

Attached is the entire EULA 
-- 
Jeff Rose

jojerose at mindspring.com

END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE

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12. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY AND REMEDIES. Notwithstanding any damages that you might incur for any reason whatsoever (including, without limitation, all damages referenced above and all direct or general damages), the entire liability of Microsoft and any of its suppliers under any provision of this EULA and your exclusive remedy for all of the foregoing (except for any remedy of repair or replacement elected by Microsoft with respect to any breach of the Limited Warranty) shall be limited to the greater of the amount actually paid by you for the Product or U.S.$5.00. The foregoing limitations, exclusions, and disclaimers (including Sections 9, 10, and 11 above) shall apply to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law, even if any remedy fails its essential purpose.

13. LINKS TO THIRD-PARTY SITES. You may link to third-party sites through the use of the Product. The third-party sites are not under the control of Microsoft, and Microsoft is not responsible for the contents of any third-party sites, any links contained in third-party sites, or any changes or updates to third-party sites. Microsoft is not responsible for webcasting or any other form of transmission received from any third-party sites. Microsoft is providing these links to third-party sites to you only as a convenience, and the inclusion of any link does not imply an endorsement by Microsoft of the third party site.

14. U.S. GOVERNMENT LICENSE RIGHTS. All Product provided to the U.S. Government pursuant to solicitations issued on or after December 1, 1995 is provided with the commercial license rights and restrictions described elsewhere herein. All Product provided to the U.S.
Government pursuant to solicitations issued prior to December 1, 1995 is provided with "Restricted Rights" as provided for in FAR, 48 CFR 52.227-14 (JUNE 1987) or DFAR, 48 CFR 252.227-7013 (OCT 1988), as applicable.

15. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. You acknowledge that the Product is of U.S. origin and subject to U.S. export jurisdiction. You agree to comply with all applicable international and national laws that apply to the Product, including the U.S. Export Administration Regulations, as well as end-user, end-use, and destination restrictions issued by U.S. and other governments. For additional information see http://www.microsoft.com/exporting/.

16. APPLICABLE LAW. If you acquired this Product in the United States, this EULA is governed by the laws of the State of Washington. If you acquired this Product in Canada, unless expressly prohibited by local law, this EULA is governed by the laws in force in the Province of Ontario, Canada; and, in respect of any dispute which may arise hereunder, you consent to the jurisdiction of the federal and provincial courts sitting in Toronto, Ontario. If this Product was acquired outside the United States, then local law may apply.

17. ENTIRE AGREEMENT. This EULA (including any addendum or amendment to this EULA which is included with the Product) are the entire agreement between you and Microsoft relating to the Product and the support services (if any) and they supersede all prior or contemporaneous oral or written communications, proposals, and representations with respect to the Product or any other subject matter covered by this EULA. To the extent the terms of
any Microsoft policies or programs for support services conflict with the terms of this EULA, the terms of this EULA shall control.

18. The Product is protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws and treaties. Microsoft or its suppliers own the title, copyright, and other intellectual property rights in the Product. The Product is licensed, not sold.

GARANTIE LIMITÃ‰E
Sauf pur celles du "Redistributables," qui sont fournies "comme telles," Microsoft garantit que le Produit fonctionnera conformÃ©ment aux documents inclus pendant une pÃ©riode de 90 jours suivant la date de rÃ©ception. Si une garantie ou condition implicite est crÃ©Ã©e par votre Ã‰tat ou votre territoire et qu'une loi fÃ©dÃ©rale ou provinciale ou Ã‰tat en interdit le dÃ©ni, vous jouissez Ã©galement d'une garantie ou condition implicite, MAIS UNIQUEMENT POUR LES DÃ‰FAUTS DÃ‰COUVERTS DURANT LA PÃ‰RIODE DE LA PRÃ‰SENTE GARANTIE LIMITÃ‰E (QUATRE-VINGT-DIX JOURS). IL N'Y A AUCUNE GARANTIE OU CONDITION DE QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT QUANT AUX DÃ‰FAUTS DÃ‰COUVERTS APRÃˆS CETTE PÃ‰RIODE DE QUATRE-VINGT-DIX JOURS. Certains Ã‰tats ou territoires ne permettent pas de limiter la durÃ©e d'une garantie ou condition implicite de sorte que la limitation ci-dessus peut ne pas s'appliquer Ã  vous. Tous les supplÃ©ments ou toutes les mises Ã  jour relatifs au Produit, notamment, les ensembles de services ou les rÃ©parations Ã  chaud (le cas Ã©chÃ©ant) qui vous sont fournis aprÃ¨s l'expiration de la pÃ©riode de quatre-vingt-dix jours de la garantie limitÃ©e ne sont pas couverts par quelque garantie ou condition que ce soit, expresse ou implicite.

LIMITATION DES RECOURS; ABSENCE DE DOMMAGES INDIRECTS OU AUTRES. Votre recours exclusif pour toute violation de la prÃ©sente garantie limitÃ©e est dÃ©crit ci-aprÃ¨s. Sauf pour tout remboursement au choix de Microsoft, si le Produit ne respecte pas la garantie limitÃ©e de Microsoft et, dans la mesure maximale permise par les lois applicables, mÃªme si tout recours n'atteint pas son but essentiel, VOUS N'AVEZ DROIT Ã€ AUCUNS DOMMAGES, NOTAMMENT DES DOMMAGES INDIRECTS. Les modalitÃ©s de la clause Â«Exclusion des dommages accessoires, indirects et de certains autres dommages Â» sont Ã©galement intÃ©grÃ©es Ã  la prÃ©sente garantie limitÃ©e. Certains Ã‰tats ou territoires ne permettent pas l'exclusion ou la limitation des dommages indirects ou accessoires de sorte que la limitation ou l'exclusion ci-dessus peut ne pas s'appliquer Ã  vous. La prÃ©sente garantie limitÃ©e vous donne des droits lÃ©gaux spÃ©cifiques. Vous pouvez avoir d'autres droits qui peuvent varier d'un territoire ou d'un Ã‰tat Ã  un autre. 

VOTRE RECOURS EXCLUSIF. L'obligation intÃ©grale de Microsoft et de ses fournisseurs et votre recours exclusif seront, selon le choix de Microsoft de temps Ã  autre sous rÃ©serve de toute loi applicable, a) le remboursement du prix payÃ©, le cas Ã©chÃ©ant, pour le Produit ou b) la rÃ©paration ou le remplacement du Produit qui ne respecte pas la prÃ©sente garantie limitÃ©e et qui est retournÃ© Ã  Microsoft avec une copie de votre reÃ§u. Vous recevrez la compensation choisie par Microsoft, sans frais, sauf que vous Ãªtes responsable des dÃ©penses que vous
pourriez engager (p. ex., les frais d'envoi du Produit Ã  Microsoft). La prÃ©sente garantie limitÃ©e est nulle si la dÃ©fectuositÃ© du Produit est causÃ©e par un accident, un usage abusif, une mauvaise application, un usage anormal ou un virus. Tout Produit de remplacement sera
garanti pour le reste de la pÃ©riode de garantie initiale ou pendant trente (30) jours, selon la plus longue entre ces deux pÃ©riodes. Ã€ l'extÃ©rieur des Ã‰tats-Unis ou du Canada, ces recours ou l'un quelconque des services de soutien technique offerts par Microsoft ne sont pas disponibles sans preuve d'achat d'une source internationale autorisÃ©e. Pour exercer votre recours, vous devez communiquer avec Microsoft et vous adresser au Microsoft Sales Information Center/One Microsoft Way/Redmond, WA 98052-6399, ou Ã  la filiale de Microsoft de votre pays.

DÃ‰NI DE GARANTIES. La garantie limitÃ©e mentionnÃ©e ci-dessus constitue la seule garantie expresse qui vous est donnÃ©e et remplace toutes autres garanties expresses (s'il en est) mentionnÃ©es dans un document ou sur un emballage. Sauf en ce qui a trait Ã  la garantie limitÃ©e et dans la mesure maximale permise par les lois applicables, le Produit et les services de soutien technique (le cas Ã©chÃ©ant) sont fournis TELS QUELS ET AVEC TOUS LES
DÃ‰FAUTS par Microsoft et ses fournisseurs, lesquels par les prÃ©sentes dÃ©nient toutes autres garanties et conditions expresses, implicites ou en vertu de la loi, notamment (le cas Ã©chÃ©ant) les garanties, devoirs ou conditions implicites de qualitÃ© marchande, d'adaptation Ã  un usage particulier, d'exactitude ou d'exhaustivitÃ© des rÃ©ponses, des rÃ©sultats, des efforts dÃ©ployÃ©s selon les rÃ¨gles de l'art, d'absence de virus et de nÃ©gligence, le tout Ã  l'Ã©gard du Produit et de la prestation des services de soutien technique ou de l'omission d'une telle prestation. PAR AILLEURS, IL N'Y A AUCUNE GARANTIE OU CONDITION QUANT AU
TITRE DE PROPRIÃ‰TÃ‰, Ã€ LA JOUISSANCE OU LA POSSESSION PAISIBLE, Ã€ LA CONCORDANCE Ã€ UNE DESCRIPTION NI QUANT Ã€ UNE ABSENCE DE CONTREFAÃ‡ON CONCERNANT LE PRODUIT.

EXCLUSION DES DOMMAGES ACCESSOIRES, INDIRECTS ET DE CERTAINS AUTRES DOMMAGES. DANS LA MESURE MAXIMALE PERMISE PAR LES LOIS APPLICABLES, EN AUCUN CAS MICROSOFT OU SES FOURNISSEURS NE SERONT RESPONSABLES DES DOMMAGES SPÃ‰CIAUX, CONSÃ‰CUTIFS, ACCESSOIRES OU INDIRECTS DE QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT (NOTAMMENT, LES DOMMAGES Ã€ L'Ã‰GARD DU MANQUE Ã€ GAGNER OU DE LA DIVULGATION DE RENSEIGNEMENTS CONFIDENTIELS OU AUTRES, DE LA PERTE D'EXPLOITATION, DE BLESSURES CORPORELLES, DE LA VIOLATION DE LA VIE PRIVÃ‰E, DE L'OMISSION DE REMPLIR TOUT DEVOIR, Y COMPRIS D'AGIR DE BONNE FOI OU D'EXERCER UN SOIN RAISONNABLE, DE LA NÃ‰GLIGENCE ET DE TOUTE AUTRE PERTE PÃ‰CUNIAIRE OU AUTRE PERTE DE QUELQUE NATURE QUE CE SOIT) SE RAPPORTANT DE QUELQUE MANIÃˆRE QUE CE SOIT Ã€ L'UTILISATION DU PRODUIT OU Ã€ L'INCAPACITÃ‰ DE S'EN SERVIR, Ã€ LA PRESTATION OU Ã€ L'OMISSION D'UNE TELLE PRESTATION DE SERVICES DE SOUTIEN TECHNIQUE OU AUTREMENT AUX TERMES DE TOUTE DISPOSITION DU PRÃ‰SENT EULA OU RELATIVEMENT Ã€ UNE TELLE DISPOSITION, MÃŠME EN CAS DE FAUTE, DE DÃ‰LIT CIVIL (Y COMPRIS LA NÃ‰GLIGENCE), DE RESPONSABILITÃ‰ STRICTE, DE VIOLATION DE CONTRAT OU DE VIOLATION DE GARANTIE DE MICROSOFT OU DE TOUT FOURNISSEUR ET MÃŠME SI MICROSOFT OU TOUT FOURNISSEUR A Ã‰TÃ‰ AVISÃ‰ DE LA POSSIBILITÃ‰ DE TELS DOMMAGES.

LIMITATION DE RESPONSABILITÃ‰ ET RECOURS. MalgrÃ© les dommages que vous puissiez subir pour quelque motif que ce soit (notamment, tous les dommages susmentionnÃ©s et tous les dommages directs ou gÃ©nÃ©raux), l'obligation intÃ©grale de Microsoft et de l'un ou l'autre de ses
fournisseurs aux termes de toute disposition du prÃ©sent EULA et votre recours exclusif Ã  l'Ã©gard de tout ce qui prÃ©cÃ¨de (sauf en ce qui concerne tout recours de rÃ©paration ou de remplacement choisi par Microsoft Ã  l'Ã©gard de tout manquement Ã  la garantie limitÃ©e) se limite au plus Ã©levÃ© entre les montants suivants : le montant que vous avez rÃ©ellement payÃ© pour le Produit ou 5,00 $US. Les limites, exclusions et dÃ©nis qui prÃ©cÃ¨dent (y compris les clauses ci-dessus), s'appliquent dans la mesure maximale permise par les lois applicables, mÃªme si tout recours n'atteint pas son but essentiel.

La prÃ©sente Convention est rÃ©gie par les lois de la province d'Ontario, Canada. Chacune des parties Ã  la prÃ©sente reconnaÃ®t irrÃ©vocablement la compÃ©tence des tribunaux de la province d'Ontario et consent Ã  instituer tout litige qui pourrait dÃ©couler de la prÃ©sente auprÃ¨s des
tribunaux situÃ©s dans le district judiciaire de York, province d'Ontario.

Au cas oÃ¹ vous auriez des questions concernant cette licence ou que vous dÃ©siriez vous mettre en rapport avec Microsoft pour quelque raison que ce soit, veuillez contacter la succursale Microsoft desservant votre pays, dont l'adresse est fournie dans ce produit, ou Ã©crivez Ã  : Microsoft Sales Information Center, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, Washington 98052-6399.
0901 Part No. X08-44750
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