[ale] OT: The Amazing WEB

[Greg]

	Well, I think that your are missing several salient points here, as well as
using faulty logic.

	No one wants the first amendment trampled on or is saying the government
should censor what people buy/read/see/hear/etc., but as with everything, it
is tempered by some limits. You cannot shout "Fire" in a crowded theatre,
libel or slander others, or promote the violent overthrow of the government.
Bestiality and child porn are also illegal (in the US - for now at any
rate). Sorry, if this offends you, but this is the law and what has been
decided by the majority.  You are free to try to change it, but that's it.

	Porn is also tempered in the US by law using "community standards" - i.e.
many places have ordinances that it cannot be sold to minors, within a
certain distance of schools, etc.. that again is the law and you are free to
try to change it, but that's it for now.  What I don't like is the way that
it is insinuated into communities "under the cover" - without a vote to see
what those standards are in the community..or even at a hearing of the
public dis-service commission.  If a community wants it..ok, as long as it
is legal in a federal view (no children/animals).  I'll move.  I believe in
communities determining their own standards to a certain extent. You are
free to try to change it, but that's it.

	However, since the consolidation of the cable industry and lack of
government interdiction I and others no longer have that choice and the law
fails to remedy it unless there is an extremely large and concerted public
movement.  That is the primary point here I think.  I personally wouldn't
want my children near it and that is hard to do if others push it out there.
As for just plain getting rid of it across the board, there are reasons for
that also.

	A correlation of an increase in porn to an increase of rape, wife beating,
and other deviant behavior (several mass murderers were really into porn
evidently). While I don't care what is in your tape collection I do have
problems with stuff that causes problems to the community at large.  I
should not have to worry about my family's security.  Now it is MY problem
and your "rights" are suborned to those of the common good.

	While there are limits on it now, I fully understand that this is a
slippery slope that could lead to no rules on it later, as it is overseas.
Coming back from Germany when I was in the Army all soldiers entered a
hangar of long tables where we spread out all possessions.  We were searched
for contraband by the MP's before we were allowed to board our plane to the
US. What were they looking for ? Things that are ok in Europe but not
here...drugs and kiddie porn.  Obviously, because there were those who
"wanted to buy it" it was legal to have this stuff in Europe.  Needless to
say, I am not interested in living as they do in Copenhagen.

	As far as your argument of "customers want it so it is ok" I say this:
Bullshit. This only, as if your grammar and spelling (or lack thereof)
wasn't already an indicator, belies your ignorance.  So, following this
argument, then the many junkies who want to buy heroin make it "ok" to sell
heroin ?  or those who want to "buy" or "rent" little children make it "ok"
to pimp them out as they do overseas ? or if your neighbor "wants to buy"
someone to kill or burn down a house then that makes it "ok" ?  The wants of
"customers" should have little sway against the common good.  Again, we have
instituted a few morals for the common good..I mean why do you think that
police departments have "vice" squads ?  As for the companies that provide,
it...same to them.  Their greed is only tempered by jail sentences or the
economic viability of an enterprise.  Of course their campaign to hide
behind the Fourth Amendment (not applicable in this situation) or excuses
("customers want it") or profits (Enron and "shareholder concerns")  just
shows the type of corporate leadership prevalent in America.

	Your argument for families spending more time taking care of their children
is well taken.  However, it is easier to raise kids if bad stuff is out of
their reach as opposed to it being easy for them to obtain.

	Dude, you are just flat out wrong in my opinion.  However, being in America
and American I respect your right to speak your piece and would not have it
otherwise, but the facts are against you.

	Greg Canter



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zyman, Andy [mailto:zymana at hra.nyc.gov]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:47 PM
> To: 'ale at ale.org'
> Subject: RE: [ale] OT: The Amazing WEB
>
>
> I have a proposition: Let's prohibit tv, radio, inet, all and any
> magazines
> and newspapers. Then, to enforce this "law", let's kill everybody who
> doesn't agree and then live happy ....
> Huraa!!! Welcome to the Soviet union and china!!! Huraaaa!
>
> now more seriously:
> If U ( i mean person ) don't like porn/Maxim/TV/car - don't use
> it, don't go
> out and spend Your money on it.
> Porn industry is doing money on CUSTOMERS. They don't "taxed" You as
> government do - U want it - u paying them. Bum of inet porn -
> people simply
> want to have porn at their homes.
> So before crying "Bad AT&T.. etc, " check out Your own tapes/DVDs
> and spend
> more time with Your children.
> Don't You understand that banning -is the best they to make these people (
> porn ind ) rich ?
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin Krumwiede [mailto:krum at smyrnacable.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:35 PM
> > To: Jim Popovitch; ale at ale.org
> > Subject: RE: [ale] OT: The Amazing WEB
> >
> >
> > Yes it could -- not because it's viewed on their products,
> > but because these
> > companies, too, have their fingers in such a wide range of
> > industries that
> > it's almost impossible to avoid supporting them if you don't want to.
> >
> > Krum
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jim Popovitch [mailto:jimpop at rocketship.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:29 PM
> > > To: Irv Mullins; ale at ale.org
> > > Subject: RE: [ale] OT: The Amazing WEB
> > >
> > >
> > > Couldn't the same things be said of RCA, Magnavox, Panasonic,
> > > etc... For it
> > > is on their products that the viewing happens.  Identifying
> > motives, and
> > > keeping proper perspective, is key to arguments such as these.
> > >
> > > -Jim P.
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This message has been sent through the ALE general discussion list.
> > See http://www.ale.org/mailing-lists.shtml for more info.
> > Problems should be
> > sent to listmaster at ale dot org.
> >
>


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