[ale] OT: H1B

Thu Dec 19 21:00:24 EST 2002

On Tue, 2002-12-17 at 13:12, ahuitzot at mindspring.com wrote:
> And my point is, if we keep outsourcing there will not be anyone left in
> america that would be able to afford these "cheap" software (or what ever)
> products, because none of us will be left employed!  Unless of course you do
> not mind working for $7 an hr at arbys 

At least you could eat :) Arby's makes a nice sandwich!

with no health insurance (or a very
> minimum).
> 
> In this way the "Global" economy makes no sense.  You cut out all the
> "Expensive" workers here, and there is noone left with enough money to buy
> your product, except maybe other companies.  Hmm. Ponder that for awhile....
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:17:57 -0500 "ANNAREDDY,REDDY (HP-Cupertino,ex1)"
> <reddyraja.annareddy at hp.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > I am a H1B holder working in US. US has no
> > option left except to brings H1
> > and also outsource the work. Let us see the
> > reasons behind the argument.
> > Europe is already having good software
> > engineering background. 
> > 
> > 1. Competition among companies has increased a
> > lot. If you don't provide
> > software for cheap, some one will provide it
> > and take over your market. The
> > market is now a global economy. You can no
> > loner think locally. Suppose you
> > produce the software locally. In order for you
> > to compete globally, you have
> > to have a reasonable price. Given the emrging
> > developing nations like India,
> > China, they can write software at a much lower
> > cost compared to when the
> > software is written in US. In order for US
> > software companies to survice,
> > the only way out is to be part of the Global
> > economy and invest in India,
> > otherwise they are going to loose the
> > competition. If you see Intel, Sun,
> > IBM, HP, Ford, GM, GE, all these companies have
> > office in India. Thousands
> > of sofwtware professionals are working in these
> > companies to prodeuce
> > cheaper software.
> > 2. If the software is cheap, the benefits you
> > are going to get are
> >    a.Lower insurance in most of the cases.
> > Because if they by expensive
> > software, they have to charge more insurance.
> >    b. Platics and Platic goods: Cheaper to
> > produce in China compared to any
> > other country in the world. If this is not so,
> > you have to buy the same
> > pieice for $10 if made in US as compared to $1
> > if made in China. This means
> > the inflation will go up. The cost of living
> > will go up. Our salary will not
> > be sufficient to survive.
> >    c. Even companies in India are shifting
> > their manufacturing bases to
> > china for cheaper platic goods. Economy is
> > truly Global.
> > 3. Ireland a small country amounts major
> > software exports in all over the
> > world.
> > 4. The companies not only have to survive, they
> > have to make profit.
> > Othewise invertors will not invest and the
> > stock goes down. US economy is
> > driven by stock value as compared to a real
> > value of the company. A company
> > is what an anlyst see as it is. It is not the
> > company the employess are made
> > of etc.
> > 
> > 5. I think going forwared, the days are going
> > to be tough. India and China
> > also have tough tasks ahead.
> > 
> > 6. I think, US is doing what it is supposed to
> > do(Smart). It is the mart
> > move in the Global economy to keep inflation
> > low and economy moving.
> > Otherwise there will me more layoffs etc.
> > 
> > 7. Why do we buy Japanese goods specifically
> > Cars etc. Becuase they last
> > long. The economy is truly global.
> > 
> > 8. I think the next century belongs to those,
> > who produce goods at a cheaper
> > cost. Does this country ever producess like
> > this. There is a point at which
> > this country has to yield to other developing
> > nations. As the econmomy
> > becomes global, more and more developing
> > countries will take part keeping
> > the cost of goods down and keeping the
> > inlfation down.
> > 
> > 9. We have to figure out new ways to survive
> > ourselves. Other wise we are
> > going to loose the cause.
> > 
> > 10. The reson why US is developed beacause of
> > the intense cold war. They are
> > forced to develop.
> >   For any nation to survive, the people should
> > not rest. For people not to
> > rest,there has to be issues.
> > 
> > --cheers.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ray Knight
> > [mailto:audilover at atlantabroadband.com]
> > Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 8:58 PM
> > To: ale at ale.org
> > Subject: RE: [ale] OT: H1B
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 2002-12-16 at 15:58, Mazukna, Thomas
> > wrote:
> > > Geoffrey wrote:
> > > > I don't know if they do or not.  Bottom
> > line for me is, I see too
> > many 
> > > > VERY GOOD technical U.S. Citizens out of
> > work, and therefore think
> > that 
> > > > H1Bs should be stopped for until this
> > problem is resolved.
> > > 
> > > Stopping H1b will not solve the problem.
> > Period. But it is convenient
> > to
> > > blame someone else instead.
> > > 
> > > > Again, if there are citizens who are
> > capable of performing the
> > function, 
> > > > they should get the first shot.
> > > 
> > > And it is in 99% of the cases. Have you
> > looked at job offerings? 99%
> > say "No
> > > H1b sponsorship" on the first line. 
> > > 
> > > If you are in good health and can not find a
> > job in US you are doing
> > > something wrong. Take a look around there are
> > plenty of jobs, but it
> > will
> > > not be 100k+ consulting gig, but you will not
> > starve to death. H1b on
> > the
> > > other hand once lost the job, must leave the
> > country immediately,
> > since you
> > > can not work for any other company.
> > > 
> >  
> > A risk the H1B visa holder should have been
> > aware of before taking the
> > job.  If you can't live by the rules of the
> > visa don't accept it. 
> > Besides most H1B visa holders are creating
> > "brain drain" problems in
> > their home country.  If they stayed home and
> > put there knowledge to work
> > they would not have the same standard of living
> > they enjoy in the U.S.,
> > but would be improving the future of their own
> > country.
> > 
> > Ray
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
-- 
Ryan Matteson - UNIX Administrator
GPG ID: 1B52A210 2002-12-01 Ryan Matteson (Primary Key Pair)
<matty91 at bellsouth.net>
Public Key: http://www.daemons.net/~matty/public.asc
Detached Digital Signature: http://www.daemons.net/~matty/public.sig.asc
Fingerprint = A0B1 298E 29C4 3F26 01D5  EDFC 3D62 281F 1B52 A210

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale