[ale] OT: H1B

[Zyman, Andy]

> If outsourcing IT to India is such a great idea, why not outsource the 
> management suit to India also? Shouldn't many companies save 50% or more 
> on the cost of running the executive suite?

100 points :)))

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tfreeman at intel.digichem.net [mailto:tfreeman at intel.digichem.net]
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 11:55 AM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Subject: Re: [ale] OT: H1B
> 
> 
> On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Andrew Newton wrote:
> 
> > I've generally kept out of this too, but I'm thankful for 
> this voice of 
> > moderation.
> > 
> > I agree that the Hotel Patel remark was wrong.  I know many 
> Indians, 
> > some in the tech sector and some in other jobs.  I can 
> honestly say that 
> > they are hard-working individuals, usually honest and 
> upstanding, and on 
> > average very decent people.
> > 
> > I can also sympathize with American citizens with the same 
> good virtues 
> > who have lost their jobs.  Yeah, it sucks!  But turning 
> xenophobic isn't 
> > the answer.
> 
> Whether it is management, government, labor, or whatever - if 
> somebody is 
> whining about "fair" or "right" or "change", they may be 
> considered part 
> of the problem. IMHO of course. And with some nonspecified 
> exceptions of 
> individual cases which I cann't think of at this time.
> 
> > 
> > What we all want is a level playing field.  No special tax 
> breaks.  An 
> > honest wage for an honest days work.  And job security for 
> a job well 
> > done.  Surprizingly, it isn't just American's who want 
> that.  Everybody 
> > does.
> > 
> > And while I generally don't appreciate socialist or leftist 
> jabs at the 
> > rich, I think we can safely say that many, many of the top 
> managers of 
> > our American corporations have let us down.  They have 
> thought about the 
> > short-term and neglected both the long-term of their own 
> businesses and 
> >   our communities.
> > 
> 
> Do I lose "Capitalist Pig" status if I take a 
> socialist/leftist baseball 
> bat to the majority of major corporate management? Actually, 
> I'd prefer to 
> take a howitzer to those greedy morons who think that they 
> are better/more 
> important to corporate well being than the line employees 
> doing the actual 
> work of the business. One bank I deal with paid $100 Million 
> or so to get 
> rid of the Chairman of the Board some years back, dismissing 
> a pile of 
> employees to raise the money to do so. Why is that fool 
> special? Why is it 
> that the stock holders don't inform such to pick up their hat 
> and leave; 
> especially since that is what they do to the 
> janitors/tellers/customer 
> support people.
> 
> If outsourcing IT to India is such a great idea, why not 
> outsource the 
> management suit to India also? Shouldn't many companies save 
> 50% or more 
> on the cost of running the executive suite? 
> 
> Along a similar line of thought: I'm in Charlotte which just 
> enjoyed such 
> a lovely ice storm. The question I would have: should an organization 
> which fails to serve 1/2 of their customers for a period 
> between one day 
> and ten days be considered as having made a profit for the year, and 
> therefor pay the executives in charge a profit bonus? The 
> balance sheet 
> may show a profit (and will I think), but some fraction of 
> the cost born 
> by the customers due to the outages really belongs to the 
> cost column of 
> the decisions of management.
> 
> One more specific of the general. Four or five years ago, one 
> local bank 
> announced layoffs of something like 5% of all employees. A 
> few days later, 
> the profit _bonus_ for the CEO was announced. Back of the envelope 
> calculations suggested that the CEO alone could have reduced 
> the layoff 
> size to 3.5% or so for one year on the basis of his bonus. 
> The suspicion I 
> have is that the executive level of that company essetially 
> stole a number 
> jobs to feather their own nests.
> 
> Now please don't get me started on investors like myself. 
> Especially since 
> I understand Adam Smith asserted that investors had a 
> responsiblity to the 
> corporation and its running...
> 
> 
> > -andy
> > 
> > ahuitzot at mindspring.com wrote:
> > > I usually do not reply to this kind of krap, but I will 
> make an exception this
> > > time.  I do think that the person who made the "hotel 
> patel" comment was a bit
> > > extreme, and I would possibly take that as a racist comment. 
> > > 
> > > But on the subject, I will state, and this is from my 
> experience and factual
> > > evidence, I DID NOT LOOSE MY JOB DUE TO H1B VISAS.  I 
> lost it because the CEO
> > > of the company decided to OUTSOURCE the company's 
> software development to
> > > another country.  EVEN THE H1B'S where I worked LOST 
> THEIR JOB.  THE H1B is
> > > not the problem.  Its the corprate mentality to get the 
> job done as cheap as
> > > it can be, reguardless of the human factor that is 
> killing the US economy and
> > > our jobs.  The H1B's may be beneficial in other areas, I 
> am sure they are not
> > > just extending them because of the software industry 
> (almost nonexistant one
> > > at that), I am sure there are other industries in the US 
> in dire need of
> > > qualified workers, and since the colleges and technical 
> schools have all been
> > > pushing IT, there very well could be a shortage of 
> qualified people in other
> > > areas.  Of course I could also be talking completely out 
> my ass on that one.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > So how many people on this list actually lost their job 
> due to an H1B?  Can
> > > you prove thats why?
> > > 
> > > Oh, and BTW, people with H1B's are people too, maybe if 
> you got to know one
> > > and became friends with one (like I did at my previous 
> job) you may actually
> > > decide to treat them like people and not outcasts.  Stop 
> reacting from fear
> > > and ignorance (of loosing your job or whatever) and 
> instead act with
> > > intelligence and kindness.
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> =============================================
> If you think Education is expensive
> Try Ignorance
>                    Author Unknown
> ============================================
> 
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