[ale] OT: H1B

[tfreeman at intel.digichem.net]

On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Andrew Newton wrote:

> I've generally kept out of this too, but I'm thankful for this voice of 
> moderation.
> 
> I agree that the Hotel Patel remark was wrong.  I know many Indians, 
> some in the tech sector and some in other jobs.  I can honestly say that 
> they are hard-working individuals, usually honest and upstanding, and on 
> average very decent people.
> 
> I can also sympathize with American citizens with the same good virtues 
> who have lost their jobs.  Yeah, it sucks!  But turning xenophobic isn't 
> the answer.

Whether it is management, government, labor, or whatever - if somebody is 
whining about "fair" or "right" or "change", they may be considered part 
of the problem. IMHO of course. And with some nonspecified exceptions of 
individual cases which I cann't think of at this time.

> 
> What we all want is a level playing field.  No special tax breaks.  An 
> honest wage for an honest days work.  And job security for a job well 
> done.  Surprizingly, it isn't just American's who want that.  Everybody 
> does.
> 
> And while I generally don't appreciate socialist or leftist jabs at the 
> rich, I think we can safely say that many, many of the top managers of 
> our American corporations have let us down.  They have thought about the 
> short-term and neglected both the long-term of their own businesses and 
>   our communities.
> 

Do I lose "Capitalist Pig" status if I take a socialist/leftist baseball 
bat to the majority of major corporate management? Actually, I'd prefer to 
take a howitzer to those greedy morons who think that they are better/more 
important to corporate well being than the line employees doing the actual 
work of the business. One bank I deal with paid $100 Million or so to get 
rid of the Chairman of the Board some years back, dismissing a pile of 
employees to raise the money to do so. Why is that fool special? Why is it 
that the stock holders don't inform such to pick up their hat and leave; 
especially since that is what they do to the janitors/tellers/customer 
support people.

If outsourcing IT to India is such a great idea, why not outsource the 
management suit to India also? Shouldn't many companies save 50% or more 
on the cost of running the executive suite? 

Along a similar line of thought: I'm in Charlotte which just enjoyed such 
a lovely ice storm. The question I would have: should an organization 
which fails to serve 1/2 of their customers for a period between one day 
and ten days be considered as having made a profit for the year, and 
therefor pay the executives in charge a profit bonus? The balance sheet 
may show a profit (and will I think), but some fraction of the cost born 
by the customers due to the outages really belongs to the cost column of 
the decisions of management.

One more specific of the general. Four or five years ago, one local bank 
announced layoffs of something like 5% of all employees. A few days later, 
the profit _bonus_ for the CEO was announced. Back of the envelope 
calculations suggested that the CEO alone could have reduced the layoff 
size to 3.5% or so for one year on the basis of his bonus. The suspicion I 
have is that the executive level of that company essetially stole a number 
jobs to feather their own nests.

Now please don't get me started on investors like myself. Especially since 
I understand Adam Smith asserted that investors had a responsiblity to the 
corporation and its running...


> -andy
> 
> ahuitzot at mindspring.com wrote:
> > I usually do not reply to this kind of krap, but I will make an exception this
> > time.  I do think that the person who made the "hotel patel" comment was a bit
> > extreme, and I would possibly take that as a racist comment. 
> > 
> > But on the subject, I will state, and this is from my experience and factual
> > evidence, I DID NOT LOOSE MY JOB DUE TO H1B VISAS.  I lost it because the CEO
> > of the company decided to OUTSOURCE the company's software development to
> > another country.  EVEN THE H1B'S where I worked LOST THEIR JOB.  THE H1B is
> > not the problem.  Its the corprate mentality to get the job done as cheap as
> > it can be, reguardless of the human factor that is killing the US economy and
> > our jobs.  The H1B's may be beneficial in other areas, I am sure they are not
> > just extending them because of the software industry (almost nonexistant one
> > at that), I am sure there are other industries in the US in dire need of
> > qualified workers, and since the colleges and technical schools have all been
> > pushing IT, there very well could be a shortage of qualified people in other
> > areas.  Of course I could also be talking completely out my ass on that one.
> > 
> > 
> > So how many people on this list actually lost their job due to an H1B?  Can
> > you prove thats why?
> > 
> > Oh, and BTW, people with H1B's are people too, maybe if you got to know one
> > and became friends with one (like I did at my previous job) you may actually
> > decide to treat them like people and not outcasts.  Stop reacting from fear
> > and ignorance (of loosing your job or whatever) and instead act with
> > intelligence and kindness.
> 
> 

-- 
=============================================
If you think Education is expensive
Try Ignorance
                   Author Unknown
============================================

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