<html><head></head><body><div>And that is not so much a failure of systemd as it is a failure of the distro.</div><div><br></div><div>The shutdown process requires that filesystems get unmounted. If a process is trying to write to a log file while that log space is trying to get unmounted, hang! Sucks using that in a server environment without an addressable PDU.</div><div><br></div><div>Is it the fault of the shutdown command or the fault of the people who wrote the logic that's failing? That logic layer is hinted at by systemd but is supposed to be fleshed out by the distro writers.</div><div><br></div><div>So, um, yeah, Ubuntu dropped the ball. Fedora has some hangs as well in the same manner. CentOS 7.3 does not. I don't count my Fedora systems as "Server OS" although it could work with some tweaks. But Ubuntu 16.04 is supposed to be the LTS release and thus "server class". That's (another) FAIL in the Ubuntu scorecard for me.</div><div><br></div><div>(I'm happy to throw gasoline on a fire of why some distros are better suited than others for certain needs :-) </div><div><br></div><div>Just because someone misuses an adjustable wrench and claims that makes it a lousy screwdriver doesn't make it a bad adjustable wrench.</div><div><br></div><div>On Thu, 2017-09-07 at 10:35 -0400, James Sumners wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Meanwhile... <a href="https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/SystemdUbuntuRebootFailure">https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/SystemdUbuntuRebootFailure</a><div><br></div><div>"<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Times;font-size:medium">We just went through a periodic exercise of rebooting all of </span><a href="https://support.cs.toronto.edu/" style="font-family:Times;font-size:medium">our</a><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Times;font-size:medium"> Ubuntu servers in order to get up to date on kernels and so on. By now almost all of our servers are running Ubuntu 16.04, which means that they're using systemd. Unfortunately this gives us a real problem, because </span><strong style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Times;font-size:medium">on Ubuntu 16.04, systemd won't reliably reboot your system</strong><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Times;font-size:medium">. On some servers, usually the busiest and most important ones, the system will just stop during the shutdown process and sit there. And sit there. And sit there. Perhaps it would eventually recover after tens of minutes, but as mentioned these are generally our busiest and most important servers, so we're not exactly going to let them sit there to find out what happens eventually."</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 10:18 AM, Jim Kinney <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com" target="_blank">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!</div><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div>On Thu, 2017-09-07 at 12:29 +0000, Lightner, Jeffrey wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex"><pre>Caveman conversation:
Ug: What that?
Zog: Wheel.
Ug: Why wheel? Drag work for years.
Zog: More fast to use wheel.
Ug: Wheel made by false god to trap draggers. It bad.
Ug then clubs Zog because Zog doesn't see the intrinsic "reason" of Ug's opinion.
Move ahead 10,000 years:
Ug: What that?
Zog: Systemd.
Ug: Why systemd. Init work for years...
:p
-----Original Message-----
From: <a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org" target="_blank">ale-bounces@ale.org</a> [<a href="mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org" target="_blank">mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org</a>] On Behalf Of Steve Litt
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2017 1:47 AM
To: <a href="mailto:ale@ale.org" target="_blank">ale@ale.org</a>
Subject: Re: [ale] please bow your head for a moment of silence...
On Wed, 6 Sep 2017 07:53:36 -0400
leam hall <<a href="mailto:leamhall@gmail.com" target="_blank">leamhall@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
<blockquote type="cite" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:2px #729fcf solid;padding-left:1ex">
Given the Linux adoption of systemd the only options seem to be
"Winderz with a GUI", "Winderz with a command line", "Expensive
Fruit", or some flavor of BSD.
</blockquote>
That being said, several Linux distros don't use systemd and are committed to not using systemd:
* Devuan
* Void
* Funtoo
There are probably seven or eight more that currently don't use systemd, or don't use it by default, but have not foresworn the possibility.
Except for those who "simply must" have their Gnome, KDE or NetworkManager, there are plenty of Linux systems out there they can run without systemd.
SteveT
Steve Litt
September 2017 featured book: Manager's Guide to Technical Troubleshooting Brand new, second edition <a href="http://www.troubleshooters.com/mgr" target="_blank">http://www.troubleshooters.<wbr>com/mgr</a>
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