<div dir="ltr"><div>I know we'll appreciate the help! I'm hoping to avoid all the C99/C11 stuff and stick with clean and simple C for the first go round. If we move to a more advanced topic later, different C versions might come into play. <br><br></div>Leam<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 4:36 PM, DJ-Pfulio <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:djpfulio@jdpfu.com" target="_blank">djpfulio@jdpfu.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">And that was the common advice from 1960-1995.<br>
Since then, we've learned that students don't stick with languages long enough<br>
if there isn't nearly immediate feedback and the ability to create useful programs.<br>
<br>
Python provides those things, while forcing reasonable coding style. Plus the<br>
complexities of compilers, makefiles, linking, system debuggers can all be<br>
avoided for the casual python person, while still providing most of the<br>
background to be more successful at C.<br>
<br>
IMHO.<br>
<br>
I started with<br>
* TRS-DOS BASIC<br>
* FORTRAN 66<br>
* FORTRAN 77<br>
* a few engineering, functional languages MATLAB, Tk Solver, MathCAD, ...<br>
* then about 20 languages nobody here has heard of .... plus IBM 360 ASM<br>
* then C, C++, Borne Shell, cshell, perl, python, Ruby, and I'm working on Perl6<br>
now. Did C/C++ on about 12 different platforms, if that helps.<br>
<br>
I can help with C stuff too, but my knowledge is highly dated from the late<br>
1990s. I was high-intermediate level of skill with C++. The C standards have<br>
changed in a way that my knowledge might not be useful. For C++, the Std-Lib<br>
changed everything. I thought everyone had switched from gmake to cmake about a<br>
decade ago. That's too bad, because I was REALLY GOOD at gmake, including<br>
automatic dependency stuff.<br>
<br>
Oh ... and foswiki has to wait. Got a laptop replacement keyboard today that<br>
REALLY needs to be installed. Have to disassemble the entire C720 to access the<br>
keyboard part and I'd rather not brick the machine.<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 11/27/2015 02:57 PM, Justin Goldberg wrote:<br>
> I remember perusing the different "x as a first language" search results a<br>
> while ago, circa 2003?, and came across a book that made a lot of sense. It<br>
> was called assembly as a first language. It made the point that a future<br>
> programmers first language should be closest to the bare metal, exposing<br>
> the way a computer actually functions earlier. As opposed to other<br>
> languages which abstract away the bare metal. Although the C language is<br>
> supposed to be closer to the bare metal than most languages.<br>
><br>
> It's was available for free online, at least back then.<br>
> On Nov 27, 2015 2:08 PM, "Paul Cartwright" <<a href="mailto:pbcartwright@gmail.com">pbcartwright@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> I just installed pascal... See free <a href="http://pascal.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">pascal.org</a> .waaaay back in my Atari<br>
>> st days I ran Alice pascal.. Then I took C during my AT&T days on a real<br>
>> UNIX computer..<br>
>><br>
>> Sent from my iPad<br>
>><br>
>>> On Nov 27, 2015, at 12:14 PM, DJ-Pfulio <<a href="mailto:DJPfulio@jdpfu.com">DJPfulio@jdpfu.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> C is best learned after an interpreted language teaches basic<br>
>>> programming skills, IMHO. Python is a good first language. No need to<br>
>>> be a python expert, just functions, i/o, layout, version control, and<br>
>>> TDD to start. All of that translates easily to C.<br>
>>><br>
>>> C is a jumping off point for all compiled languages - like C++, C#,<br>
>>> Java, .... Dart. Learning C teaches the language that most other<br>
>>> languages were built from originally. C memory management is critical to<br>
>>> understand. All languages basically use it under the covers. Learning<br>
>>> function pointers would be helpful to understanding how OO works under<br>
>>> the covers.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Lots to know.<br>
>>><br>
>>>> On 11/27/2015 11:35 AM, leam hall wrote:<br>
>>>> Also, something from the book. Zed recommends knowing another<br>
>>>> programming language before trying to tackle C. For those expressing<br>
>>>> interest, I can say that so far the book seems easy to read and most<br>
>>>> Linux users could get at least as far as I've gotten.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> However, if we're starting in Jan, then you have a month to play with<br>
>>>> Python, Ruby, or similar to get your programming feet wet. :)<br>
<br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div><a href="http://leamhall.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">Mind on a Mission</a></div></div>
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