<div dir="ltr"><div>I love it when a Troll comes together.<br><br></div>-- CHS<br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Jim Kinney <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:jim.kinney@gmail.com" target="_blank">jim.kinney@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
    
  
  <div><div>Oh man. There is _so_ much wrong with that. Halliburton subbed the waste disposal to a Saudi partner firm as they got the gold disposal from the north building basement. They already had the commando team in place placing the charges so it made sense they would extract the rail car filled with gold before the fire got to that lower level. </div><div><br></div><div>Sheesh. At least get your conspiracies correct </div><div><br></div><div>:-)</div><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div>On Tue, 2015-09-15 at 11:55,  -0400, Damon L. Chesser wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite">
    <br>
    <br>
    <div>On 09/15/2015 10:47 AM, Scott Plante
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:#000000"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12pt">Or when &quot;9/11 Truthers&quot; would argue
            that jet fuel doesn&#39;t burn hot enough to melt the steel
            girders in the towers, I&#39;d ask, &quot;but what about those tanks
            of chemicals they use to make the chemtrails? Who knows how
            hot that stuff burns?&quot;</span></font></div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">I wondered how the false
      flag commandos got the building to burn so well with the jet
      fuel.  Thanks for clearing that up for me.  Didn&#39;t Halliburton get
      the contract for waste disposal?  It all ties together now.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </font>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:#000000">
        <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
          </font></div>
        <div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory</a></font><br>
          <br>
          <hr style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
          <div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none"><b>From: </b>&quot;Charles
            Shapiro&quot; <a href="mailto:hooterpincher@gmail.com" target="_blank">&lt;hooterpincher@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>
            <b>To: </b>&quot;Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts&quot; <a href="mailto:ale@ale.org" target="_blank">&lt;ale@ale.org&gt;</a><br>
            <b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, September 15, 2015 9:31:15 AM<br>
            <b>Subject: </b>Re: [ale] [Fwd: Advertising on <a href="http://ale.org" target="_blank">ale.org</a>] -
            OT MS vs Apple vs        Linux/UNIX<br>
            <br>
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>I chalk it all up to the Moon Landing Conspiracy. The
                moon landings were all faked, in a studio ON THE MOON.<br>
                <br>
              </div>
              --  CHS<br>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 4:58 PM,
                Damon L. Chesser <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:damon@damtek.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:damon@damtek.com" target="_blank">damon@damtek.com</a>&gt;</span>
                wrote:<br>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div>
                    <div><br>
                      <br>
                      On 09/12/2015 04:21 PM, Steve Litt wrote:<br>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 22:17:46 +0300<br>
                        <a href="mailto:damon@damtek.com" target="_blank">damon@damtek.com</a>
                        wrote:<br>
                        <br>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          Ahhh. No<br>
                          It is in response to the long thread and the
                          strong opinions in the<br>
                          thread and in fact was not directed at you or
                          anybody else<br>
                          specifically.  And IAW Godwin&#39;s law, I have
                          now lost the debate.<br>
                        <br></blockquote>
                        Yes, you have. Godwin&#39;s law doesn&#39;t work
                        anymore, and it was always in<br>
                        bad taste.<br>
                        <br>
                        <blockquote type="cite">
                          Seriously, it was merely meant in jest. Don&#39;t
                          like systemd, don&#39;t use<br>
                          it. Like systemd, use it.<br>
                        <br></blockquote>
                        The preceding two sentences encapsulate the
                        entire issue.<br>
                        <br>
                        If systemd were just another modular,
                        replaceable init, everyone you<br>
                        hear cursing it would be dancing in the streets.
                        And truth be told, a<br>
                        lot of us might then choose to use systemd in
                        certain use cases.<br>
                        <br>
                        The problem is, systemd has been engineered from
                        the ground up to<br>
                        exchange dependencies with every part of the
                        Linux system. The<br>
                        motivations for doing this are up for debate,
                        but most folks who have<br>
                        every alt-initted a system will vouch for this:
                        Once you&#39;re using a<br>
                        distro that has incorporated systemd as PID1,
                        replacing systemd or any<br>
                        part of it is very, very difficult.<br>
                        <br>
                        For instance, if you currently have sysvinit,
                        OpenRC, runit, s6 or<br>
                        Epoch, switching to runit, s6 or Epoch involves
                        installing the new<br>
                        init, making a new run script (runit or s6) or
                        config section (Epoch)<br>
                        for each *real* process (not the tens of
                        no-reason processes and<br>
                        one-shots run by systemd). Not trivial, but not
                        difficult for a Linux<br>
                        knowledgeable person. You also have to make a
                        shutdown script, and you<br>
                        can find a lot of boilerplate for that on the
                        Internet. It&#39;s also<br>
                        possible that you&#39;ll need to make minor
                        alterations to your initramfs,<br>
                        but that&#39;s actually doubtful.<br>
                        <br>
                        Same thing with a systemd computer: Replace it
                        with runit, s6 or Epoch.<br>
                        Now you need to find a udev equivalent, compile
                        it, get it working. Or<br>
                        else you need to do a lot of workarounds with
                        systemd&#39;s udev. You need<br>
                        to take dracut, and use it to create an
                        initramfs that does *nothing<br>
                        but* mount the root partition, and then hand
                        control to the on-disk<br>
                        init. As you do this, contemplate the trouble
                        you&#39;ll be in if the<br>
                        systemd industry ever conquers dracut, the way
                        it conquered udev. If<br>
                        so, you&#39;ll be back to hand-creating initramfs.
                        And of course you&#39;ll<br>
                        need to do all the same things I mentioned when
                        describing alt-initting<br>
                        a non-systemd box.<br>
                        <br>
                        Consider that if sysvinit had been as
                        monolithically entangled with the<br>
                        user portion of the OS (and the kernel if they
                        get their way with<br>
                        kdbus) as systemd is, Red Hat would have had to
                        spend triple what they<br>
                        did to create a replacement init. But like all
                        the other inits except<br>
                        systemd, sysvinit is an encapsulated PID1 plus
                        service manager, so it<br>
                        was easy to replace. The systemd industry
                        climbed the ladder of<br>
                        modularity, and then pulled the ladder up after
                        them.<br>
                        <br>
                        I understand you&#39;re probably init agnostic, and
                        that&#39;s fine. But you<br>
                        need to be thankful for the people working hard
                        to provide alternatives<br>
                        to the Redhat funded juggernaut, because if
                        Redhat ever succeeds in<br>
                        eliminating alternatives to systemd, they&#39;ll
                        have a monopoly on Linux.<br>
                        Most entities who gain a monopoly do not behave
                        well, and the user pays<br>
                        the price.<br>
                      <br></blockquote>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  I am with Michael on this point.  I am init agnostic
                  and just don&#39;t care, but to claim the evil empire of
                  Red Hat is behind this?  Seems a bit bombastic?  We
                  all know the freedom haters of Debian remove choice at
                  every turn, and that is why they are backing the init
                  choice of systemd.  Once Red Hat controls everything,
                  then Debian can finally close down. Who needs those
                  pesky Debian dev meetings anyway?  Always yammering
                  about some social contract this and social contract
                  that.<br>
                  <br>
                  Gento wanted to give it&#39;s users only one choice, most
                  like due to Red Hat financial interests, but the user
                  base needed to be appeased, so they gave you a
                  &quot;choice&quot; of which system to use when you installed it.
                  Some choice.  Systemd or the old system!  Ha! Only two
                  choices!  Proof they are in league!<span><br>
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <br>
                      SteveT<br>
                      <br>
                      Steve Litt<br>
                      August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just
                      the Facts<br>
                      <a href="http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust</a><br>
                      <br>
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                    <br></blockquote>
                    <br>
                  </span><span><font color="#888888">
                      -- <br>
                      <a href="mailto:Damon@damtek.com" target="_blank">Damon@damtek.com</a><br>
                      <a href="tel:404-271-8699" target="_blank">404-271-8699</a></font></span>
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                <br></blockquote>
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    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre cols="72">-- 
<a href="mailto:Damon@damtek.com" target="_blank">Damon@damtek.com</a>
<a href="tel:404-271-8699" value="+14042718699" target="_blank">404-271-8699</a>
</pre>
  

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</pre></blockquote></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><span><pre>-- 
James P. Kinney III

Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you
gain at one end you lose at the other. It&#39;s like feeding a dog on his
own tail. It won&#39;t fatten the dog.
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain

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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>